Whats the current lighting consensus?

[drclifton]

Got me a newfangled 60 gallon cube (24x24x24) and I have a pendant that supports 250w MH, and 2-32w PC.... runnin the MH on an IceCap ballast (9 months old)

Time to change my bulbs....

I like blue MH bulbs, not the yellow ones. I have an XM 10000 right now and it looks awfully yellow and I am not a fan. I was looking at the lighting reviews here on RC and based on the PAR available for my ballast I thought the Hamilton 14K looked good. Any advice from other light bulb owners?

Also I need to replace the 2 PCs. Whats the current outlook on these mixed Actinic/7500/10000/whatever bulbs? Should I stick with purely actinic, or could I benefit from having a mixture?

Mainly acans, nems, chalice, favia etc...

Thanks ahead of time for your thoughts.

 

[drclifton]

No One?

 

[DarG]

Mogul base halide or double ended?

Most combo pendants are double ended so I assume it is a double ended pendant. Regardless, it depends on how blue of a look you want and how much par you need.
The Hamilton 14K's are fairly popular lamps and signifigantly different than the XM 10K's in that they will be a lot bluer in appearance but you will lose some par compared to the XM 10ks.
Most would describe the 14K Hamilton as a crisp white/blue lamp. I find it a bit bluer than most describe but it depends on your perspective.

You can do whatever you want with the PC's. You can go with whiter PC's to whiten up the bluer look of the halide. Or you can use 420nm PC's to try and add some of the actinic/violet that the blue 14K hamilton is lacking. Most 10K halides have a fair to good amount of actinic output near 420nm, very little output in the blue range with most of their output in the warmer parts of the spectrum above the blue range which give the lamps the warmer/yellowish tint.
The Bluer halides generally have large spikes in the blue spectrum around 460 nm and little output anywhere else, including the 420nm range. So a logical supplement is with 420nm actinic flourescents or whiter flourescents if you want to try and whiten the lamp up. It really all depends on the what look you want and how your corals look under the lighting.
There arent any real "rules" to supplementing halides. It ends up being more about personal preference. And, unfortunately, you can only find what suits you best by experimenting some.

 

[drclifton]

Thanks DarG for the response.

I have a mogul base halide system.

On the charts it the Ham14K puts me at about 350 PAR. If I supplement it with 2 solid actinic bulbs would that help out the par at all?

 

[jda]

You might get a little help with the actinic PCs, but don't count on it. If you get any, then consider it gravy. The hammy 14K in SE puts out more than enough light in a tank that size. I used to use them and really liked the color and performance with my SPS. PAR is a fun number, but it is mostly academic... choose what looks best and keep your water clear and consistent. I have seen a number of locals pick the highest PAR light, argue and fight about the importance, and then have yellow/green water that kills a lot of what they fought to get.

FWIW - I have PCs in my fixture and I don't even use them. I used to use them for dusk/dawn, but not anymore.

DarG is right, it is all up to you...

 

[drclifton]

I appreciate the realistic approach to it jda.

 

[LouH]

When I first got my tank up and running, I installed some 14K Hamilton double ended HQI bulbs in my pendants, and they had excellent color. Since then I've tried numerous bulbs of varying spectrums (10K too yellow and 20K too blue), and none have looked as good as the Hamiltons did. When my current lamps need changed out, I'm going back to the Hamilton 14K lamps.

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15462324#post15462324 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LouH
When I first got my tank up and running, I installed some 14K Hamilton double ended HQI bulbs in my pendants, and they had excellent color. Since then I've tried numerous bulbs of varying spectrums (10K too yellow and 20K too blue), and none have looked as good as the Hamiltons did. When my current lamps need changed out, I'm going back to the Hamilton 14K lamps.

Just a heads up ... The European made 20K's (Germany, Belgium) like the Ushio/AB 20K are not as blue as many of the chinese made 20K lamps. I havent owned the double ended 14K Hamilton and actually not sure if I have ever seen one. Mogul based yes but not the DE.

 

[LouH]

How are those lamps on PAR?

 

[cindyreef]

I am upgrading from my VHO setup to 250 w MH DE HQI and are tempted to try the XM 20000.

Does anyone know how these compare to the Hamilton HQI 14000. I want the blue to pop my colors but Im afraid that the tank will look dark. And I want some growth too....

Are XM 20000 european made so they burn a little whiter also?

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15463686#post15463686 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LouH
How are those lamps on PAR?

Higher than probably most 20K's but not all. For example, the Phoenix 14K is actually a 20K plus lamp and is bluer than the Ushio 20K's but has higher par. The Helios 20K is probably the bluest lamp sold to the hobby atleast in the 250 watt DE class and it was measured to have higher initial par than the Ushio 20K. Then there are bluer lamps that are very low in par. So the main reason why the German 20K's are generally higher in par compared to most 20K rated lamps is the same reason why whiter halides are higher in par than bluer halides, again, generally speaking.

But as I mentioned, I havent seen the Hamilton 14K in the DE version so I dont know how the color compares to the Ushio/AB 20K. And I dont know what the raw par of the lamp is or how the par compares with that of the Ushio/AB lamp. I just mentioned it in case you wanted to try a 20K that wasnt super blue like many/most of the asian/chinese made 20K's are and I didnt know if you had tried the Ushio/AB or the other German made 20K's.

Actually, some of Hamiltons lamps are or atleast were German made lamps so some of them possibly could be made by one of these same manufacturers and ultimately be the same lamp as is apparently the case with the Ushio / AB 20K (as well as, very possibly, other german made 20K plus rated lamps labeled by/for other European manufacturers ). I dont think that Sanjay has tested any of the Hamilton DE's or atleast doesnt have them on his site so one cant compare the spectral plots of the Hammys.

Basically, it ends up coming down to trying it and seeing for yourself which is ultimately what just about everyone has to end up doing anyway. It's definitely easier on the wallet to stay with what you know that you like and what has been working for your tank

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15463851#post15463851 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cindyreef
I am upgrading from my VHO setup to 250 w MH DE HQI and are tempted to try the XM 20000.

Does anyone know how these compare to the Hamilton HQI 14000. I want the blue to pop my colors but Im afraid that the tank will look dark. And I want some growth too....

Are XM 20000 european made so they burn a little whiter also?

The XM 20K used to be very popular. Some still really like the color. I dont know where they are made. I know that the spectral plots of the XM's and Ushio-BLV/AB 20K's are very similiar but not identical. The XM 250 watt DE, I thought, was just a little bit bluer on M80 ballast. It's been atleast 2 years since I had the XM and I didnt do a side by side but from memory, they were pretty similiar. Things could have changed in that time. You can see the specrtal plots on Sanjays lighting page at the Manhattan Reefs site (I dont think a link to it will work here) ... keep in mind though that some lamps have changed over the years. For example, the Icecaps are differnt lamps now than when Sanjay tested them. IM sure some others have changed as well but I dont know for sure or which ones. But Sanjays page and his articles are all excellent references. Here is the link if it works ...

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/lighting

I think that the Ushio lamps in general are a great bet. They are quality made lamps, consistent from lamp to lamp and very similiar across base types and wattages for the same K rated lamps. And, they very often cost less than the asian made brand name lamps. But you have to like their color and they have to work for you. I like their 20K's, one of my favorite color lamps. They arent super blue and they seem to have a bit of a violet/actinic hue in with the blue. And I like them in every wattage and base type from 150 - 250 watts. They have generally good par for the K rating but they arent par monsters, but most 20K's arent either. I find their 14K's to be too warm (they measure close to 10K) but they are great lamps as well for those who like the warmer color or have enough flourescents to supplement.

 

[smariner]

Give the EVC DE 250W lamp a try! You won't be disappointed!

Hope this helps,
Chad D. Bryant

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15499754#post15499754 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smariner
Give the EVC DE 250W lamp a try! You won't be disappointed!

Hope this helps,
Chad D. Bryant

Probably still the bluest 250 watt lamp sold to the hobby.

But keep on pimping them and your website ... :thumbsup:



:rolleye1:

 

[smariner]

Bahahaha, I can only try... Unless you want to pimp for me!

cb

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15502154#post15502154 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smariner
Bahahaha, I can only try... Unless you want to pimp for me!

cb

No, thats ok. you cam pimp them yourself ... until you get busted for violating RC's user agreement that is

 

[ReefWreak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15503986#post15503986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DarG
No, thats ok. you cam pimp them yourself ... until you get busted for violating RC's user agreement that is

Sponsors can do as their money desires.... That's the upside of paying per month.

That being said, I do LOVE the Helios 20k bulbs. My friend had them on his tank in the 250w DE flavor, but I've heard that the EVC SEs are the same as the Helios bulbs, just in a SE package, so I'm considering trying them out at my next bulb swap.

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15504061#post15504061 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefWreak
Sponsors can do as their money desires.... That's the upside of paying per month.

That being said, I do LOVE the Helios 20k bulbs. My friend had them on his tank in the 250w DE flavor, but I've heard that the EVC SEs are the same as the Helios bulbs, just in a SE package, so I'm considering trying them out at my next bulb swap.

Sponors have their own forum to promote their business and products. That's what they pay for, not promotion on the regular forums, either outright or poorly disguised.
They are also required to reveal the fact that they have a relationship with and profit from a specific product if they comment on it.

I probably just spend too much time here so I end up seeing the posts which are made at seemingly just about every opportunity he has to post them. There are a lot of sponsors here on RC that dont find it necessary to "pimp" at every opportunity. It tells me, personally, a lot about a dealer.
Im not reporting the posts, but I will play the "game". I have plenty of free time

As far as the lamps. The OP didnt ask for the bluest lamp. He asked for a whiter 20K. I dont suggest one try the Helios 20K when they are looking for a whiter 20K.

 

[ReefWreak]

Whitest 20k is Radium on 250w HQI ballast. The whitest bulb on an electronic ballast like OP has, I'd say Reeflux 10k. It's WHITE with some blue. I didn't like it, because XM accents every color but blue, but the Reeflux 10k is much whiter than the XM, however everything looks kind of flat except blue, BLUE sticks out a LOT. Which is cool if your tank is nothing but Oregon Torts, but I doubt that's the case. After that, with SE..... My hamilton 14ks were garbage. Maybe I got a bad batch, but they were MUCH bluer than my radiums, but they were flat and boring. I'd say either Reeflux 10k or Radium for white with a bit of blue.

 

[jda]

Be sure and post your ballast that you are planning on using too. It makes a big difference in the output a color. Same with the reflector.

For 250W DE on HQI, then 14K phoenix is the best all around bulb on the market IMO hands down. I have tried 10K AB (13K), 20K AB, 20K XM, 14K hammy, 20K hammy, etc. and they don't compare. FWIW 10K AB was awesome for growth, but terrible color.

For DE on Electronic, then XM20K was the best for me, although I didn't like anything in this combo.

For 400W SE on Magnetic, then Radium 20K is a long time winner. Radium 20K is even very good on 400W electronic.

For 250W SE on Magnetic, then 14K hammy is pretty solid. 14K hammy was not so good on electronic for me - where I would prefer a gold old 10K XM with some actinics.

As for the reeflux, they can be awesome and they can be duds. I got 3 bulbs once that were fantastic. When I reordered, I got 3 different bulbs completely - looked the same, but the color was not even close. I cannot recommend them unless they have fixed their consistency issues.

My current favorite lighting system is 150W DE on HQI and I love the 14K phoenix. I am trying to switch all of my lighting over to these - they penetrate, grow, look good and take less electricity. I can compare growth to be the same, if not a bit better, than 400W radium on magnetic (spider reflectors) at a fraction of the electricity costs.