What's Your Problem With Bio-Pellets?

as stated before, you could try running your pelletreactor output into your skimmer if you fear bad stuff being released.
from what i remember reading in other threads, you might be limited in N, so the P will not be used up as quick by the bacteria and the cyano might be able to use that, algae might not as it would need N too. as it uses it up, you might not be able to detect it, so using more/change more frequent of the GFO/rowaphos might be an idea.
 
Hi,

Thanks for the input. The output from my reactor has always been directed into the skimmer. Perhaps the GFO would benefit from a change but its only been in there less than a week and as far as I could tell the phosphate was very low in the first place. I had it checked a couple of weeks ago on my friends Hanna phosphorus meter and wit read between 6 and 14 over two tests which is very low.

Cam.
 
as i said, the cyano might take it up as fast as it is produced (you said youve got quite alot of it in your tank -> high uptake volume), you might be unable to measure it. just my idea on it..
 
My theory is that the condition for bacterias in the PB is so good that they out concur bacterias in your LR. When stopping your BP, after 1 year, you got almost no bacterias left in your system, and cyano got the best conditions at the moment. Consuming N/P on the spot leaving close to nothing to be measured.
 
Thanks, I would suspect you are probably right. What would be your suggestion to put things right? Perhaps reseeding the tank with some new bacteria and continuing with the Bak and perhaps moving on to vinegar? I will also do a change of GFO.

CAM.
 
Not an expert at all, just picking up a little here and there.... Running BP myself prox 50% of recomended. But if I'm correct, you need something to compete with when cyano. And I think bacteria is good idea. Maybe running BP in a small dose? If your light source is getting old that might benefit the cyano aswell. I had a small amount of cyano and got rid of it with new t5 bulbs and ZeoBak. I know it's popular in here in Norway to also use coral-snow against cyano. But never tried myself.
 
i use microbe-lift special blend which is also supposed to be a bacterial additive to compete against cyanos. greetings
 
I think I'll stop adding the Bak as this may be fueling the cyno and as there is no No3 then it seems pointless to try and increase the bacteria at this time until I had new ones to add..

Cam.
 
Cam,
For my cyano, dino issues I have had terrific success with Zeo's coral snow mixed with their ZeoBak and let stand for 10 minutes before adding tithe tank. Hydrogen peroxide has worked marvelously for clearing bacteria from the water column. Lastly, Zeozym and BioMate mixed and fermented for 10min also seemed to help.
My tanked tested zero on nitrate and phosphates while the outbreak happenned.
The bacteria consumed one cup of pellets in 6 weeks. I was experimenting with things and something kicked the bacteria into full gear and it was amazing to witness...IMO, the pellets worked but they can be uncontrollable.

Pm me if you wish to discuss details.
 
Ok. This is my experience with bio-pellets. Phosphates are at 0 and nitrates are at 20-30. I'm told that the bacteria needs phosphates and nitrates to have a good time and live. However, how do I control what the bacteria eats faster then the other. Now I'm being told to add phosphate to the tank to balance the mood, but to be careful. Eliminated GFO was great. However, if you are looking for a cure all? I have not experienced it yet. Any thoughts?
 
Ok. This is my experience with bio-pellets. Phosphates are at 0 and nitrates are at 20-30. I'm told that the bacteria needs phosphates and nitrates to have a good time and live. However, how do I control what the bacteria eats faster then the other. Now I'm being told to add phosphate to the tank to balance the mood, but to be careful. Eliminated GFO was great. However, if you are looking for a cure all? I have not experienced it yet. Any thoughts?


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It is possible that if you drive phosphate down too low with GFO, you may have problems with any balanced nutrient export method (like macroalgae, ATS, deep sand, live rock, and bacterial growth from organic carbon dosing).

I expect the issue will disappear over time when not using GFO, and I personally wouldn't add phosphate since it is much more likely to be a problem than is nitrate. All organic carbon dosing methods are overbalanced to remove a lot more nitrate than phosphate, so I'd just let it do its thing (or switch to soluble organics like vinegar) rather than dosing phosphate.

That said, adding some is a fine experiment. :)
 
I'd also say that depending on how you use the pellets, you may be more limited to aerobic nitrate reduction than hypoxic reduction, with the latter using a lot more nitrate than the former per unit of phosphate consumed. In other words, the issue is whether a thick enough film is allowed to build up on the pellets to become O2 limited at the pellet surface, or if it is thin enough that all the bacterial growth is aerobic. We don't really know much about the nature of these films on pellets, but how you tumble them and exactly what they are made of, etc may impact these issues.

Soluble organic dosing allows the added organic to penetrate into low O2 regions of rock and sand, and may be more effective at nitrate reduction than are pellets.

So IMO, adding a bit of vinegar or vodka may also be a way to push down nitrate when phosphate seem to possibly be limiting. :)
 
I'm very new to this....but....

I'm very new to this....but....

Like I said, I'm new to this....and that may be a good thing since I'm not set in my ways and looking to learn alot.

I am considering a BP reactor for my new system. It's not even got water, but I want to provide the best possible environment so a REEF DYNAMICS reactor may be a nice addition.

The reason I say REEF DYNAMICS is that you can adjust the flow from ZERO to alot....quickly.

As I've read all the 152 posts, there seems to be a couple of common factors:

1.) Bad BP experience, but openly claim they didn't read the instructions
2.) Bad BP experience, but then resolved (fully or partially) the issues with using a reduced amount of pellets.
2a.) Seems like too many BPs were used and the reactor stripped all nutrients out of the system....causing issues.
3.) Bad BP experience, but the effluent from the BP reactor was NOT routed directly into the skimmer output.

There is NO DOUBT that the effluent from the BP reactor is very, very high in nutrients that algae loves. If that's not skimmed out, then you are looking for trouble.

It appears REEF DYNAMICS reactor design can be adjusted to minmize or maximize both the tumble flow and the effluent flow. This new design (or new for 2012) seems to resolve the root causes of the bad BP experiences.
If you can basically slow the effluent down to a drip...then that would limit the effluent capacity into your skimmer. If you need the flow to be wide open...then go for it.

A good question for those with BAD BP experiences would be...what reactor did you use? It could simply be an issue with bad design of equipment vs. simply bad to use BPs???

Again, being very new to this reef hobby...sometimes a fresh set of eyes and ears may uncover a few basics that have been overlooked or assumed...

Just my .2c

Cheers,

Matt,
 
my issues have vanished, they could have been caused by the tanks move too. i now simply dump them in a netbag in my skimmer chamber. still waiting for my custom pellets reactor.
 
After having used biopellets for about 7 months, I experienced the overstripping of nutrients phenomenon recently. Lost a colony (Hawkins Blue Echinata) and 6 to 10 smaller frags/mini-colonies (4 may recover). Most were SPS, though I also lost a large colony of cyphastrea Meteor Shower, and even a fungia plate lost a lot of color, as well as a medium rock covered with porites. At first I thought it was the oft-reported alkalinity sensitivity of sps tips (went white), but then it spread to the rest of the coral. When it started a couple months ago, I removed about 3/4ths of my BRS biopellets. Then, with continuing degradation of my corals, I took out all but about 50 grams of the pellets. A week or two later I removed all pellets. Still no improvement. Finally did a 1/2 water change, and changed the carbon while about doubling the amount I normally used. Also have been dosing amino acids - and I have a fairly heavy bioload so nutrients are making it into the system. The colors are just starting to come back, and the polyps are again fully extended on most.

I was thrilled with the early results using the pellets, algae disappeared, didn't have to clean the glass but once a week (and only then to keep the corraline algae from taking over). Almost no green algae whatsoever, except for the Halimeda which took over my refugium over caulerpa and chaeto (which stopped growing and became a detritus trap, so I tossed it). Everything looked sparkling clean - but then my corals started fading some, slow to no growth, then the white tips.

Probably should have reacted faster, but didn't want to shock the system by just removing the pellets all at once.

Some general observations:
At first, the pellets seemed to harbor a biofilm (at least when they would clump and I'd have to break them apart a slime layer seemed to dislodge). But after a few months, it seemed there was no biofilm/slime layer on the pellets. I think what was happening was the pellets continued to dissolve (biofilm or not), and add dissolved organic carbon to the system (as a breakdown product - whether it's the monomer or some other breakdown product from the pellets I don't know - but would like to - perhaps I'll let some pellets sit in some clean fresh saltwater and do a quick extraction and inject onto a GC-MS and see what shows up). Anyway, it may be that the residual dissolved carbon in the system serves as a carbon source for bacterial growth to continue stripping nutrients (N and P) out of the system. At least that's my hunch. The activated carbon I always run may have become prematurely loaded with whatever organic comes off of the pellets, and adding fresh activated carbon may have scavanged what was dissolved in the water, finally improving matters. Again, just a hunch.

The lack of green algae made the display tank look nice and crisp. Didn't have a cyano problem either. But apparently that's not a good thing - probably need to adjust the amount of pellets, or the flow (recirculating?) to achieve some steady state low nutrient condition. But in the long-run, that may be elusive, and now I'm a bit leery of biopellets.

The corals that normally like a bit of "dirty" water didn't seem phased. My mushroom problem is still a problem. The LPS and soft corals didn't miss a beat either (the fungia excepted). Zooanthids never looked better. So can't reconcile that with the nutrient over-stripping idea.

Perhaps I had too many pellets - I was using the full bag - 1 liter on a total system volume of about 220-240 gallons. But for now I'm going biopellet-free, but may go back to a very small amount, or may just go back to vinegar which seemed to be the most trouble-free carbon source for me so far (I had problems with vodka - dosing that is).
 
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I've never used the pellets. They might be fine but I'm concerned about the monomers and the difficulty in controlling the actuaal dose via reactors.
I've dosed soluble organics( vodka and vinegar ) for 3.5 years without the issues noted with pellets.
 
i ran them on a 90g to help with a severe HA problem. They worked great to beat the HA problem within 3 mths but then at about the 6mth mark started causing coral problems...tried to replace part of the pelets but didnt help. I think it was striping the water column from something essential for coral health. I discontinued use and the corals rebounded in a few weeks. I was happy at the HA being gone however the BPs killed a hammer coral, elegance, some zoas and other shrooms. So they helped and hurt.
 
I took my pellets offline a few months ago and left them in a bucket full of water. I recently had elevated nitrates so I made the choice to use them again. After inspecting the bucket I noticed the wated inside the bucket had turned yellow. It seems the pellets deteriate. I rinsed them and used them everything seems somewhat fine. I dont understand do we really beleive these pellets are toxic and can kill corals.
 
I don't think they are toxic. They are polymers( carbohydrates).They breakdown from bacterial activity to monomers( mostly sugars).Sugar,particulary glucose sometimes causes issues for corals. Rapid nutreint cahages and excess organics can be issues too.
 
"Since reducing the flow through the reactor to a slow stream my No3 has been stable around 2-5ppm but my SPS still seem to be somewhat challenged (not all of them, just a few). I suspect the SPS were use to growing in a high nutrient environment that no longer exists and or its a side effect of the bio pellets themselves". I think this is an issue that many people discount. It seems once corals get used to a high nutrient environment, many of them have a very difficult time adjusting to a ULN environment, wither away and die.
 
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