What's Your Problem With Bio-Pellets?

[heckeng]

This is all very interesting to me because I am not experiencing any of the negatives. I am wondering if I am just VERY lucky. I have a 90 gallon tank that has 4 small fish, snails, crabs, and I would guess around 100 lbs of live rock. Before BP, I had a constant cyano issue that was not horrible, but very annoying. I have been using a Reef Octopus SRO 1000int skimmer which is great but certainly not oversized. I added the Reef Octopus BP reactor (the smallest one) and am using about 1/2 to 2/3 the recommended amount of BPs. It is being driven by a Mag 3 and controlled by a ball valve. I keep the pellets tumbling smoothly throughout the column but down near the base of the BP reactor where the water gets injected into the media, the velocity of the pellets is pretty high which I believe removes any "slime" that would have accumulated on them. I have never seen any bacterial slime in the reactor or the tank which sounds like I am in the minority. All of the cyano has also disappeared as well. I use the Reef Octopus Bio Spheres as my medium, but have not tried any others. I only used it because I figured it was sized appropriately for their reactors.

Am I the only one who is having actual success with these things?

 

[t.trezona]

Results Are In!

Results Are In!

If that slime is a simple organic material rather than a bacterial mat, perhaps that is what the remote cyanobacteria are eating.

Slime in general, however, could be mats of the bacteria themselves.

OK, I'm back and the results are in!
Not spectacular and probably not even putting anything to rest.
Here is what I did: I harvested my pellets, which have been on-line for 6 months (W-M EcoBak) and slime/gunk from my reactor screen, and the same from my lines. My lines, screen, valves, and pump impeller are all being plugged up with the same stuff. I made slides of everything, including the pellets. The gunk was placed on slides, fixed, and stained. The pellets were placed in gel and dropped into liquid nitrogen on cutting blocks. The blocks were placed on a cutting machine and sliced a few microns thick. The slices were dropped on slides and then stained, same as the gunk slides. This was done in my hospital pathology lab and examined by myself and two pathologists at 400X, 800X, and 1200X. This is the same technique used to make "frozen sections" used to study human tissue in the operating room during surgery.
There is an amorphus material that looks like thin sliced plastic noted on every slide, whether it was the pellets or the gunk. On the pellets there were a few, and surprisingly few, coccobacillus and larger cocci bacteria. There was no bacterial matt anywhere. I expected to see a bacterial matt on the surface of the pellets but did not. The gunk on my lines bascally looks the same as the pellets. Same amorphus material. What does it mean?? Hard to know. Could it be possible the pellets are simply releasing the organic polymer into the circulation and the action is happening in our tank, rather than the reactor, more like any liquid carbon dosing??? Why is the gunk sticking to the lines, valves, and impeller???
What do you think??

 

[Spracklcat]

When I cultured the pellets, I did certainly find bacteria, both aerobic and anaerobic. Could be that it isn't a frank mat, like we'd see with Beggiatoa or something, but something thinner. I also suspect that you are correct in that much of the bacteria is either growing in the water column or elsewhere in the system. I'm trying to work out a way to test the water for the polymer or a degradation product of it.

 

[burnah]

i have had the pellets in a sock for a month, and i start to see results. loads of stringy slimy stuff, skimmer works crazy, "biofilm" on rocks and glass, although the buildup is reducing by now. algae growth has halted, cyano has gotten a little less. water clarity is outstanding, and i got 0 on N and P although i suspect my testkits to be broken this seems legit. will continue to report...

thank you for analyzing this stuff, although i cant imagine what it could be either. maybe some polysaccharid slime produced by the bacteria as a wasteproduct or for attaching to surfaces? i really imagined it to be strictly bacterial matter, astonishing findings! anyone else considered having a look at it to verify? i have a microscope but do neither have HE nor gram stain.

 

[Vipete1985]

Do you have any evidence to support the first part of that assertion?

The only evidence I have is from personal experience of what happened with my tank, my pellets clogged up due to a slow flow n within a few days cyano everywhere but as I replaced the pump n got the pellets tumbling at a high rate cyano dissapeared with a week

 

[Vipete1985]

One thing worth to note is that no new system should be started off with biopellets, u should allow ur system to go threw proper cycle and age a bit... Let ur system get a chance to build nitrate levels and phosphate so that the biopellets have something to work on....and chances are u may not even have a nitrate or phos issue y even use them if not necessary??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The only evidence I have is from personal experience of what happened with my tank, my pellets clogged up due to a slow flow n within a few days cyano everywhere but as I replaced the pump n got the pellets tumbling at a high rate cyano dissapeared with a week

OK, thanks.

 

[ivans75]

Cyano is probably the most commonly reported problem when people use pellets.

There are many reasons I do not use them, but these might be considered "advantages" of other types of organics, rather than "problems" with pellets. In any case, here's the list of what concerns me about them:

1. Harder to quickly control and adjust dosing than soluble organics.
2. More tendency to potentially cause cyano than some soluble organics such as acetate.
3. More expensive and requires equipment purchases for use (although a doser for soluble organics also costs if you use one)
4. Not as easy to control where and when the dosing takes place in the overall reef system
5. The released organics are perhaps not as widely bioavailable to reef creatures as things like acetate or ethanol
6. Possibly more of a concern for hydrogen sulfide production during a power failure.

+1 here Randy, I am using a biopellet and I am having cyano on my sand surface. I was wondering where do they come from as got 0 nitrate and close to zero phosphate. That's where the source of nutrient. The biopelet is releasing nutrient. I think the undisolved nutrient from the biopelets reactor fuel the cyano. Sometime I see them blacken out and die but they come back the bastard.

I tried dosing the tank with sugar but it doesnt work.

 

[ivans75]

The only evidence I have is from personal experience of what happened with my tank, my pellets clogged up due to a slow flow n within a few days cyano everywhere but as I replaced the pump n got the pellets tumbling at a high rate cyano dissapeared with a week

I have a 500 gallon marine pool on the top of my apartment, it has 2000 ml of biopellets on 2 reactors and they re moving and fluidizing at slow speed. I don't see any algae on all the sides of fibreglass pool. No cyano presents. Thoughts?

 

[mcurtis]

OK, thanks.

Randy, i was going to send you a PM on this but you have PM's blocked. So my question to you is what would you recommend for controlling nitrates and phosphates: algae scrubber, biopellets, vinegar dosing, something else? I respect your knowledge and opinions and would like to see what you would recommend.

Thanks!

 

[cbellm]

I am glad you all are debating this. I have been highly concidering putting one on my tank but after reading this I am going to reconcider and try some other methods of getting rid of nucance algae

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, i was going to send you a PM on this but you have PM's blocked. So my question to you is what would you recommend for controlling nitrates and phosphates: algae scrubber, biopellets, vinegar dosing, something else? I respect your knowledge and opinions and would like to see what you would recommend.

I use macroalgae growth in three large rock filled refugia, vinegar dosing, skimming, GAC and GFO on my system. There are lots of other good methods as well, but these are what I prefer.

 

[mcurtis]

I use macroalgae growth in three large rock filled refugia, vinegar dosing, skimming, GAC and GFO on my system. There are lots of other good methods as well, but these are what I prefer.

Thank you for that insight.

 

[ziyaadb]

tagging

 

[Whalehead9]

When first time I used pellets on my own tank, I had the same cyano problems at about the 8 month mark. I noticed it on the sand and low flow areas in the tank. I tried to get cute and use an organic scavenger that lead to ther death of a huge Chicken liver Sponge that I did not notice even growing. Alas Tank crash and SPS doom followed.

The next two times I have used them in clients aquariums, and have eliminated cyano problems. One at 1 yr, and one at 6 months then discontinued after power outage.

Here is what I think. (All single series N1 experiments. Your results may vary)

The recommended dosages are wrong for extended use. Using a fraction of the recommended amount it took longer to bring down NO3 and PO4. In cases neither are at optimal levels, but smaller water changes are now more effective at fixing this problem.

I think of it as the Sorcerer's Apprentice problem. At first the buildup of biofilms in the reactor grows quickly and begins to breakdown the appropriate waste. As the film grows new microbes grow and break free some get skimmed out and some make it the display. Some survive in the aquarium substrate and over time reduce waste there.

At some point the films either have to bioregulate and stop reproducing in the aquarium, or rogue microbes begin to feed on them or their by products, like cyano.(if you've made your own saurkraut, its akin to the mold that can form at the top of the jar.) Adding more carbon, is like Mickey taking an axe to the Mops. The problem is that there are already too many microbes doing what we want. Now every spot of everything is covered with thick biofilms.

It would be worthwhile for someone to cut their Biopellet amount by half once Cyano appears, or using half the recommended amount accompanied with GFO and Carbon. I set up my first Reef when Albert Theil was the man with the Silver bullet. I can tell you that there isn't one. Biopellets are handy, but not a cure all.

 

[angelo68]

I setup a Reef Octopus BR-140 with 1500ml (1/2gallon) of BRS BioPellets on my 240gallon established in 2007 tank. The tank was not in the best shape as there was a large amount of hair algae throughout. I purchased a RO/DI system and I was doing 80 gallon water changes 2 times a week until I got my nitrates below 20ppm. I also purchased a Super Reef Octopus XP5000 external skimmer to get things online. On the 6th week of the Bio Pellets a cyano breakout that only covered the shaded areas under the rock work. On the 7th week the water turned cloudy so I removed 1/2 the pellets without change to the water cloudiness and on the 8th week I removed 1/2 of the remaining pellets and started dosing Microbacter7 and noticed the water was a little clearer. Now it's been about 9 weeks and most of the algae is gone and the cyano has all but cleared but the water is still cloudy so I'm thinking about removing 1/2 of what's left in the reactor and continue to dose the Microbacter7. The crazy thing about these pellets is once I turn off the feeder pump it always jams up with the pellets and I have to take it apart to clear it out, What a Pain! It has a check valve built into it but it doesn't work. I'll let you know how things go.

 

[Bobbofin]

Me too

Me too

I've been having sporadic cyano breakouts sine using bio-pellets. I'm wondering if i should remove them and go back to seachem phosguard.

I was running carbon and SeaChem Phosguard in a BRS reactor along with a Jns bio-pellet reactor. I started getting cyano so I took the reactor off line afew days ago and we'll see if it goes away.

 

[brshriver]

Is there anyone with experience with a recirculating bio pellet reactor that allows you to control the dosage rate?

 

[brshriver]

I am thinking or modding an old calcium reactor to try this.

 

[Sparky0028]

I beileve there is a company that has made a reactor with adjustable flow control. Not sure if i can post the web on this forum.
Rich