WHATTTTTTTT, pfff I've seen it all now...
- Thread starter maddmaxx
- Start date
ggsteve
New member
I couldn't agree more. I'm not a fan of aberrant or cultured colors or patterns. Mother nature does a pretty good job on her own. The worst thing is when you can't even get the "real" thing. For instance, has anyone tried to find decent fresh water silver angels in the last ten years?
rhinonm
New member
Sad part is that Silverbow is pricing them that way then someones spending that kind of dough...
maddmaxx
New member
they sure as hell don't look worth $780 bucks. they look like they have smashed in faces.. I don't mind the designer looks, but the prices are fricken insane and not needed. some tool that has money will buy it and be sure to mention he paid almost a thousand dollars for a fish.
jmadison
rebmeM deretsigeR
Neither here nor there on your/my opinion on the clowns, but you do realize that price you stated was for bulk lots(ie 6, 8, 12, etc) and not for an individual fish correct?
bues0022
New member
As Jmadison stated, this is for a lot of 6 fish. So the $780 isn't for one. You would be paying $130/fish. It is only another $320 for 6 more, so averaged over 12 fish, you are looking at ~$92/fish.
To all complaining about the price of these fish - just don't buy them. If you like them buy can't afford them, you have to realize that this is a basic supply and demand issue. The supply is limited, and the demand is high, so yes - breeders can get these prices. I'd like a Lamborghini, but I can't afford one and you won't find me complaining that their prices are too high.
Now, for more understanding on why the demand is limited: A standard Ocellaris is cheap because a breeding pair will put out many hundred in each batch, all looking the same. A pair of spawning picasso clowns, however, will not produce only picasso clowns. Most will actually be just regular perculas. Additionally, a pair of onyx will not only produce onyx fish. So, because the percentage of offspring from the batch that look "designer" is small, a premium price is to be had.
One more note: BOTH onyx and picasso have been observed as wild caught fish. So to those hating on these designers because they think they are man-made freaks - please do research before you get up on a soap box and look like an idiot.
To all complaining about the price of these fish - just don't buy them. If you like them buy can't afford them, you have to realize that this is a basic supply and demand issue. The supply is limited, and the demand is high, so yes - breeders can get these prices. I'd like a Lamborghini, but I can't afford one and you won't find me complaining that their prices are too high.
Now, for more understanding on why the demand is limited: A standard Ocellaris is cheap because a breeding pair will put out many hundred in each batch, all looking the same. A pair of spawning picasso clowns, however, will not produce only picasso clowns. Most will actually be just regular perculas. Additionally, a pair of onyx will not only produce onyx fish. So, because the percentage of offspring from the batch that look "designer" is small, a premium price is to be had.
One more note: BOTH onyx and picasso have been observed as wild caught fish. So to those hating on these designers because they think they are man-made freaks - please do research before you get up on a soap box and look like an idiot.
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jmadison
rebmeM deretsigeR
+1
Opinions are fine and good and are neither right nor wrong (I haven't stated my preference/opinion yet) as long as they are educated and properly formed. Sadly others are swayed and then form THEIR opinions based solely on the falsities from others without doing their due diligence(ie looking into the ACTUAL price of said clownfish), and that's when we see that peoples opinions are incorrect.
FTDelta
New member
Prove it. Let's see videos of said clowns in their natural wild environment. No pics or videos, then they're made man genetic freaks.
bues0022
New member
Seriously? Attitudes like this 1) don't belong here, and 2) are so unbelieveably inaccurate I shouldn't even be giving the satisfaction of a response.
Do your own research to find out why you are woefully wrong.
jmadison
rebmeM deretsigeR
I am sure this won't suffice because there is no pics or videos of this fish prior to collection, but I tried...
...and if you think some poor fish collector in PNG bred this in his garage over many years as opposed to just being another fascinating gift from our oceans... well then maybe we don't need you in our hobby.
http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/resources.asp?show=416
BTW collectors have seen more at collection sites. Perhaps you could commission a photograph.
FTDelta
New member
Then there is no pics in their natural environment. For all I can see, it can very well be staged as if they look like they pulled it out of the wild waters. Just saying...
I don't have an attitude nor am arrogant. Just don't believe it. Maybe they are extremely rare. I don't know. We need proof of pics/videos in their natural environment, not out of the water or in some breeders' tank. Besides, how do we know they're not planted or staged in their wild environment? Think about it realistically...
Admit it, most are genetically bred and sold for profit in the aquarium trade. To keep up the demand for designer clowns is all done by breeding.
Don't take it as comng off as arrogant. I'm not. Just looking it from another perspective. If this finds you offensive, then I don't know what to tell you.
bues0022
New member
Yup, you must be right. It's all a big conspiracy by breeders to con you out of your money.:rolleye1:
It's basic genetics. The genetic code exists in clownfish to exhibit designer traits, but due to its recessive nature it is not seen often. Matt Pederson (formerly very much agreeing with you) owns the lightening maroon and has done some very good writing on this idea, and shows your thinking is false.
No, I will not admit it is genetically bred. This implies fish have been manipulated in in such a way they would not naturally exist.
I'm not taking you as arrogant - as I stated above, just woefully misinformed. I'll add onto that now a conspiracy nut as well. I'm sure given your thoughts above that you would believe that if a tree fell in a forest and nobody was around, it therefore didn't make a sound at all :headwally:
Again, do research before making such ridiculous claims.
D-Nak
Active member
Okay... I will think about this realistically since you asked. You're telling me that a breeder takes one of their fish out into the ocean, releases it, then takes a photo of it? Not sure how realistic that is but I guess anything is possible.
I can tell you that Onyx clowns are naturally occurring, though I have yet to find a photo of one in its natural environment (sorry, can't help you there). They typically come from Papua New Guinea. What we see in Onyx clowns is called melanism, and some believe it occurs due to interaction with a host anemone. What's interesting is that some people have reported that Onyx clowns actually lose their black coloration when they interact with other host anemones, particularly BTAs (not a natural host) but also Ritteri anemones (a natural host) in their home aquariums.
Color varieties of clowns are actually pretty common. If you want to learn more, I suggest picking up a book called "Anemone Fishes and Their Host Sea Anemones" by Daphne G. Fautin and Gerald R. Allen. They are thought by many to be the anemonefish and anemone experts. The book contains a whole section on color variation. There are even photos of aberrant clowns in their natural environment.
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