when to feed bbs to dottybacks?

[mtbetta]

I have 200+ orchid dottybacks to 7 days and have only lost ten so far, most of those were lost the first night a few recently to rigid airline tube while cleaning the bottom. I am debating if I should start a few newly hatched bbs. This has been a very vigorous spawn and they are bigger than some I had gotten to eleven or twelve days. I am hesitant to start the bbs because things have just been going too smooth this time. It is already getting difficult to keep these guys full with just rotifers. The success of this spawn has caught me somewhat off guard, I only stared with some from the spawn and really haven't done anything different than my first few attempts,failures. I have decapsulated some bs eggs to get ready, partly in the hopes that decapsulating while kill off some of the bacteria associated with bs. Anyone have any input?
Jerry

 

[LotR Clown]

I would start to try to hatch the bbs. I never had problems before when I was feeding bangaii fry. For some reason, I had difficulty this last time. I finally figured out what I was doing differently. Anyhow by the time I figured what I did different, the clown larvae were plenty big enough to eat bbs. I would start hatching just to get your technique down.
Kevin

 

[mtbetta]

Hatching the bbs won't be a problem, I raised freshwater bettas for 20 years so I have that taken care of. I'm more worried about the poor nutritional value and the bacteria that usually comes with the bbs. The dottyback larvae seem very prone to bacterial infections so that is my main concern.

 

[LotR Clown]

Cool,
I think ed has bred these guys in the past. Maybe he will chime in.

Kevin

 

[clownfish75]

There is a product by a company called INVE (im sure it is avaliable in USA) called hatch controller, it is designed to narrow the hatch period of the artemia so they hatch within a smaller time window, but more importantly, it is designed to reduce the bacterial load of the artemia, could be something really worth looking at.

Isnt cheap but maybe good for your situation.

Christian

 

[Kathy55g]

The bleach used in decapsulating very effectively gets rid of the bacteria present on the cysts. As long as you store them in saturated salt brine, you should be good to go.

 

[ediaz]

Go by the size, different protocols will have different larvae sizes at the same age. Do they look like they will take it? I ussually start around day 10 depending on size. Feeding rotifers longer will not hurt just keep them available.

I worked with a breeder who will add a few drops of newly hatched , just hatched, to see their response, you may try that.

To help with the bacteria, hatch the artemia, rinse and leave in a liter of water with air and a pinch of neomycin sulfate for about an hour, rinse again and feed.



Ed

 

[mtbetta]

Thanks for the information, I will have to see if I can find some neomycin sulfate. I put a few bbs in last night and after following a few around I saw some of them eat them so they are big enough.

 

[mtbetta]

They are able to take 2nd stage nauplii at twelve days. I put in a few not thinking they would be able to do it, well, to my surprise they can.

 

[mtbetta]

I noticed what looked like mouth fungus on quite a few of them last night and this morning 90% are dead. The ones that are left don't look that great either. Well this is the first time I had any make it to 13 days.

 

[David M]

Very sorry to hear that, I was really hoping you'd make it. I'm gonna try again, been ignoring the nests for months but I decided to take another shot since you did so well this time.

 

[mtbetta]

David,
Wish I knew what I did right this time to get them this far. There are still some alive but doesn't look good. Knowing what went wrong would be a good thing too. I have probably been changing more water this time. Seems like this really has to be done slowly to not cause problems,even if pH, temp, and salinity are the same. May have to try it with the RH this time. I don't know they seemed to be growing so fast this time, maybe it wasn't nutritional maye just bacterial troubles. I did try some erythromycin last night when I noticed the trouble, maybe not the right treatment or just too late. Well, the parents will be spawning again tomorrow so it will give me a few days to regroup and try again. One thing I did notice is that even with a small hatch, around 200, ten gallons of rotifers was just barely enough.
Jerry

 

[mtbetta]

Here is a question I'll bet someone will be able to answer. I culture my rotifers in a ten gallon tank just like the tank my larvae are in. What would cause my rotifers to stick to the side in my larvae tank and not my culture tank. I am taking a closer look at what I thought was mouth fungus and now I am starting to think that maybe they are damaging their mouths from picking the rotifers off the glass. The damage to their mouths is so consistent I don't think it is fungus. It is just under their lower lip which might make sense to think it is damage from hitting the glass. It's funny, until a few days ago they hadn't figured out that there were thousands of rotifers on the galss that they weren't picking off. Then I noticed that they had started to take them from the glass, shortly after that my problem began, maybe just coincidence.

 

[David M]

One thing I did notice is that even with a small hatch, around 200, ten gallons of rotifers was just barely enough.

Yes I had the same experience, they are so much smaller than clown larvae but seem to eat 10X as much, it's really hard to keep the rots up. Thanks for reminding me, I'd better bulk up the rots before I try again.

Do you maybe have more current in the culture tank than in the nursery? That might explain why the rots are only against the glass in one of them.

 

[mtbetta]

They look a little better today and some have rounded bellies so maybe the antibiotic is starting to work. To my surprise there are more left than I thought. The rotifers had the water cleared of most algae so I was able to get a better look, probably about 40-50 remaining. There are a few that are nearly twice the size of some of the small ones. Two weeks old today so another small victory. Still not sure how much antibiotic I should be adding I have been adding half of a 250mg in the morning and the other half in the afternoon, probably on the low side of what I should be using.

 

[David M]

Very cool indeed, what temp & SG did you start at and if changed along the way, when?

 

[mtbetta]

1.021 and 80 degrees from the beginning. I have been keeping the water green with 1 part Tetraselmis to 4parts Nannochloropsis, live cultures. I have been doing about 20%-30% water changes a day. The first night I got it darker green than I had intended, couldn't even see to the back of the tank. I have kept the lights on constantly since turning them off on the second night. In the morning when the lights were off they seemed to be stressed somewhat, maybe a pH change with the lights off or just not ready to go a night without eating. I am still reluctant to turn the lights off, maybe if they continue to bounce back from the problem of yesterday.

 

[David M]

Thanks, I'm waiting for my guys to spawn again, maybe today or tomorrow, I've lost track since I haven't been collecting them.

Do you pull the eggs right away or wait a few days? If I leave the nest more than two days it's all shreded up, if I pull right away I get the whole nest but a crappy hatch. 2 days seems to be the compromise.

 

[mtbetta]

I'm lucky with that, the father has been very good at keeping the mom away from the nest. I collect them from the tank after they hatch.

 

[FuEl]

Are you darkening the sides and bottom of the rearing tank with dark cloth/paper? That might help as light reflection (from the sides & bottom) has been known to affect larval fish behavior. That might be why the rotifers are on the sides of the tank. Rotifers are attracted to light and they will congregate at those points with higher light intensity. Having a dark background for the larvae to hunt works wonders as this provides the contrast needed to see rotifers in the water column (that might explain the the problem you face with their jaws, probably resulting from wall-hitting behavior). Keep the greenwater going, it does help. You could consider increasing the amount of Tetraselmis. Supposedly it has antibacterial properties.