When I don't want to harvest larvae I just leave a small light on in the room after the tank light goes out. The mother eats all of them. The father is really good about defending the nest but when they hatch he's no match for the mother's appetite,she gets them all. David, have you tried the rh on them before? Good luck with the hatch. I have a friend who's semi-black oc have been spawning, I'm trying to convince him to catch some larvae for me to try. They are a nice looking pair not really orange, not really black, somewhere in between. Would like to give some clowns a try next.
when to feed bbs to dottybacks?
- Thread starter mtbetta
- Start date
OK, its official, these things are a pain in the neck. My largest one at 22 days has developed some sort of swim bladder trouble. It just swims on its side along the top of the water. Apparently not able to eat since it is very skinny, I'm sure his time is limited. It was really starting to show some color and I didn't have to use my imagination to see it. I wonder if this is somehow related to the bbs they have been eating almost exclusively. They just turn their noses up at rotifers now. I know freshwater bettas can develop swim bladder troubles from too much bbs, maybe the same problem. I still have six or seven that look pretty good but from past experience when something bad happens they all seem to have it in a day or so.
REALLY Good news, two have made it thru metamorphosis. I now have two miniature pinkish/purple dottybacks that act like fish and I even saw their first little spat. They are much more deliberate in their movement and each one sort of hides behind an airline in opposite corners of the tank. So for today a small victory. Would the swimming troubles I noticed yesterday have been a physical sign of their change? There are six or seven others that look like they won't be far behind if things go ok. So I guess meta was between 22-23 days, right on schedule with waht edgar said.
LotR Clown
Active member
Congrats..
I bet the strange swimming is related to meta. I have had clown larvae swim what seems like continuous circles and I think it is done for, only to find it swimming at the bottom of the tank in the morning with a tiny little line for a head-stripe.
I bet the strange swimming is related to meta. I have had clown larvae swim what seems like continuous circles and I think it is done for, only to find it swimming at the bottom of the tank in the morning with a tiny little line for a head-stripe.
Here is a picture of one of them. The ones that have made it thru meta. are abuut 1/4 -3/8 of an inch long. I now have four that have made it thru with about four more that look like they are in the process. I lost two yesterday that got stuck between the heater and the mounting bracket. It really hurts to lose some to a problem like that after getting them this far. Oh, well another lesson learned. They are guite territorial already and each of them have claimed a small area that they rarely venture away from. I added a few pieces of pvc to hopefully give them some more places to hide. They are easily frightened.
David M
New member
Ok now I am totally confused, how old are they? At 21 days mine were WAY bigger than that, more like 3/8 to 1/2". And they had no color that I could see.
Man you have me sooo pumped up to try again, I get a nest every 6-7 days but I can't produce enough rotifers for my clowns let alone experiment with them on dottybacks.
Well, I just took a tape measure to look at their size, probably more like 3/8- 1/2 inch. They will be 28 days tomorrow. They can really put away bbs also. I have underestimated how many bs to hatch out and have been using two year old eggs with a very low hatch rate, should be getting some new bs eggs today. I am still debating If I am going to try this again, it is lots of work. I have been trying to rebuild my rotifer culture also and it has been slow getting the density up. On the good side I think I have more local people that want some than I will have to sell, even if they all make it. I have been slowly degreening the water, I think I have about twenty.
I probably will give them another try. I need to find a cheap source of salt, or find out how infrequently I can do water changes and still get away with it. I don't think I fingured out anything new as far as raising them. Pretty much just followed bits and pieces of info I have been able to find on the net. I think the suggestion by Edgar about the erythromycin was extremely important, they seem to be prone to bacterial infections. I think if I had started that a day sooner and at full strength I would probably have quite a few more remaining. It will be encouraging if I can move these things locally.
David M
New member
Your'e kidding, right? Those orchids will sell for what, $40 retail, $20 to lfs and $10 to LA wholesalers? I can't see how the cost of salt could even be of concern but just for kicks what are you paying for salt mix? I know you are pretty far out there but it's not like a 3rd world country
Or IS it? 
Oh, its a third world country. Locally I can get it at petco for $60 for a five gallon bucket, lfs for $80 a bucket. The best I can find on the internet is about $37 plus shipping.
You can get $20 at a lfs for orchids? My locally owned lfs sells them for $65. The two that they have have been there for a month, it doesn't move many of them. I'm guessing if he will buy any I'll be lucky to get $15 each for them. You can get half of what they sell them for at the lfs? I have never been able to get much more than 25 % for any freshwater fish, and usually less than that. Petco sells them for 24.99 and they won't buy from a local breeder. My best chance of moving them locally is thru members of our newly formed local reef club and as you can guess in a town of about 60,000 in Mt ther aren't many of us. It surprises me that you could sell them to lfs for $20. If I thought for certain that I could ship these things somewhere in voulme I would try it. Want to be a middleman? Of course when you get your rotifers up to speed you may have more of your own than you know what to do with. How many of these do you think you can sell there? It isn't really just the cost of the salt either, I don't even want to guess how much time I put in to this spawn. Of course I'm sure I could get more efficient with more experience.
You can get $20 at a lfs for orchids? My locally owned lfs sells them for $65. The two that they have have been there for a month, it doesn't move many of them. I'm guessing if he will buy any I'll be lucky to get $15 each for them. You can get half of what they sell them for at the lfs? I have never been able to get much more than 25 % for any freshwater fish, and usually less than that. Petco sells them for 24.99 and they won't buy from a local breeder. My best chance of moving them locally is thru members of our newly formed local reef club and as you can guess in a town of about 60,000 in Mt ther aren't many of us. It surprises me that you could sell them to lfs for $20. If I thought for certain that I could ship these things somewhere in voulme I would try it. Want to be a middleman? Of course when you get your rotifers up to speed you may have more of your own than you know what to do with. How many of these do you think you can sell there? It isn't really just the cost of the salt either, I don't even want to guess how much time I put in to this spawn. Of course I'm sure I could get more efficient with more experience.
David M
New member
As we've discussed eslewhere the price has jumped around a lot in the past year but the "normal" price at wholesale is $21 so yes, my lfs would happily buy healthy captive bred dottybacks from me at $20, and I'm a little behind on the reatil pricing, it's more like $49-$59 these days. A "big farm in Florida that I won't mention but you know who I mean" sells them for a little less but there are minimum orders and shipping so still my lfs would take mine first. PetCo sells them at $24.99 here too but PetCo is not in our game, no self respecting experienced hobbyists is going to buy them even if they are cheap, everyone knows they will just die anyway Mostly the people who buy sw fish there have little experience and are unlikely to pay $25 for a fish anyway, in the local PetCo's they sit for a very long time.
As for "middle man" I'm sending Pm now
Mostly the people who buy sw fish there have little experience and are unlikely to pay $25 for a fish anyway, in the local PetCo's they sit for a very long time. As for "middle man" I'm sending Pm now
David M
New member
Well I got the rots back up to a point where I can try a dottyback hatch. I have a nice fat eggball due tomorrow night. I searched all over to find some neomycin since I don't have time to order online. What I came up with is Seachem NeoPlex: neomycin sulfate. Is this the right stuff? The instructions are not by weight or volume, they give you a little spoon and say one level spoon per 2 gallons, repeat once per week. So I figure full dose at hatching and then full dose in all replacement water I add. Sound like a plan? For how long?
My spawn was pretty healthy until I started feeding them the bbs. Edgar suggested putting some neomycin in with the bbs before feeding. From what I saw you might be able to get by without the antibiotics for about a week before the problems started. But then again I only got about 10% thru. Of course this was my first successsful attempt after quite a few failures. Best of luck David, it will be intersting with the RH. Have you tried the RH with any of your previous attempts. Keep us posted.
jerry
jerry
David M
New member
I have ratio hufa but in past efforts I have killed more rots than I've fortified with it 
Through experience I have become better at using just enough but generally I only use it on a small portion of my total rotifers (in case I kill them) and I normally only do it in prep for the initial stocking of rots for a new hatch (clowns). I know that the orchids will eat 10X the rotifers that an equal sized hatch of oc's will so I guess I will up the rh use, one thing I find is that rh really increases the rotifer production. I can pretty much double a culture overnight by using it.
Through experience I have become better at using just enough but generally I only use it on a small portion of my total rotifers (in case I kill them) and I normally only do it in prep for the initial stocking of rots for a new hatch (clowns). I know that the orchids will eat 10X the rotifers that an equal sized hatch of oc's will so I guess I will up the rh use, one thing I find is that rh really increases the rotifer production. I can pretty much double a culture overnight by using it.Intressting thread!
My P. fridmani are on day 2 now and there's still alot of them. I can't estimate how many or how many I've lost.
Earlier I've managed to get about 50 or so to day 20. I did that with very little effort. I kept a co-culture with Phytofeast and rotifers and added a little Phytofeast when the water was clearing up.. and then added extra rotifers every second day. I changed some water around day 10, maybe 20% but not more. Also started with Artemia at that time. They were growing really fast and had started to get some pink color.
At this time I was going away for 4 days so I did a bigger water change and added more Phytofeast and BBS. Next morning all of them were dead. Too big changes too quickly I guess.
I had no problem with fungus or deformed mouths, but I've read on german pages that this is often caused by the fry banging their mouths agains the glass. The solution should be to keep the water a little bit greener. That seemed to help the fry to see better.
Well well... I'll give a try again. Wish me luck!
My P. fridmani are on day 2 now and there's still alot of them. I can't estimate how many or how many I've lost.
Earlier I've managed to get about 50 or so to day 20. I did that with very little effort. I kept a co-culture with Phytofeast and rotifers and added a little Phytofeast when the water was clearing up.. and then added extra rotifers every second day. I changed some water around day 10, maybe 20% but not more. Also started with Artemia at that time. They were growing really fast and had started to get some pink color.
At this time I was going away for 4 days so I did a bigger water change and added more Phytofeast and BBS. Next morning all of them were dead. Too big changes too quickly I guess.
I had no problem with fungus or deformed mouths, but I've read on german pages that this is often caused by the fry banging their mouths agains the glass. The solution should be to keep the water a little bit greener. That seemed to help the fry to see better.
Well well... I'll give a try again. Wish me luck!
