When you buy fish -- a discussion

[saix88]

If I was a fish store I would never have a guarantee. Most people don't know how to take care of things properly or don't want to listen to guild lines/warnings. Especially with saltwater fish their are so many factors that can kill a fish if the handler is uneducated. Most of the time we are taking fish from the OCEAN, these are wild creatures and we are forcing them in to aquarium life *don't want to start a debate* but fish are extremely adaptable and can be extremely hardy which is amazing compared to any other animal. How much of the ocean do we even really know about that we can stick guarantees on everything, there are millions of unknowns in the ocean and a bunch in the aquarium, shoot there are fish in the trade that won't ever survive or we aren't educated enough to take care of them, so why would I want to sell someone a fish and have them return a week later wanting their money back because they didn't take all the proper cautions. Fish are crazy and have their own personalities, so you honestly never know what can happen, fish kill fish, why should the retailer pay for that? Yes some retailers charge high prices, but there are several factors that play a role...How much the fish distributor is charging *not all of them charge the same price and it's not always the same price it varies week to week* Just like online their is a shipping cost, well there is a shipping cost from the distributors too. there is the care and treatment of the fish *meds,food, employee pay* and all the utilities it costs to keep the corals and fish alive. It costs a lot to run a fish store, but there are some greedy owners that will mark up things to an extreme, but there are others that are happy and get by and enjoy their customers.

also, it's pretty crazy how much the fish go through from the ocean to your tank...talk about stress lol.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

The solution is somewhat simple, IMO. Dont make it an unconditional guarantee. A water sample must be provided, and the fish must be examined for condition. If there are sign of mechanical injury, damage, disease (ie- open lesions, sores, etc), no refund. If the fish appears in good condition, and the water checks out, refund. The LFS I worked at years and years ago did this. It took a bit longer to "process", but the requirements themselves cut back on the amount of frivolous attempts. And when someoene put a purple tang in with their powder blue, and it got mauled, we didnt claim responsibility.

This kinda boils down to a consumer vs. retailer responsibility issue. Whos repsonsibility is it to make sure the purchase is educated? IMO, both. To extreme on either side will lead to problems for the parties, and sadly, the fish ALWAYS suffer the worst.

 

[snorvich]

I think Jeremy's solution would be infeasible for any online vendor.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

I think Jeremy's solution would be infeasible for any online vendor.

Oh yes, Im sorry. I agree completely. Online vendors are in a bit of a pickle. I once read of one that required a photo opf the decesaed fish cut in half, which seems awfully gruesome to me. However, I still think some sort of photographic "proof" would be important, as well as some "history" of the tank. All in all, the premise of an unconditional, "no question asked" guarantee seems a bit destructive overall. As for my personal experience, I order almost exclusively from DFS, and unfortunately, have had items die within hours fo me recieving them. When I call, the money is refunded to me before I can even finish telling them my name!! Joking aside, it makes me wonder how many people take advantage of this situation (by claiming loss when there is none), or in a less malicious, but just as damaging way, by endangering and killing livestock through unnecessary risk or lack of proper environment because of the guarantee. Both scenarios will have a negative impact.

That being said, getting back to the original topic, in my mind, I am not only concerned for my own value and benefit, but also in the lives of these animals. I dont want any more fish to die than can be avoided. For tehse reasons I dont support large "chain" stores, etc. I would rather pay the premium, get a quality fish, support the comapny that promotes that, and benefit every aspect of the hobby.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Kieth71]

I honestly dont think a guarantee makes someone take a chance on a fish they would not buy otherwise.The solution jeremy is proposing would be good for lfs but since none of the lfs i deal with even offer a guarantee it doesnt matter.I am less concerned with a fish i can see in person then buying an unseen fish.In my mind if i get a healthy fish i can most times take it from there.Heck i have gotten several fish that were not eating and were full of parasites and still got them to pull through.To me when buying online the guarantee tells me that the vendor beleives his stock is healthy.When i see restrictions on fish that vendors like dr f&s dont restrict it is sending a message to me that they may have had trouble with this fish in the past and i will buy from the vendor that stands behind their stock.Whether this is reality or not its the message i get.

 

[MrMoses]

My picks:
1. DD
2. Live aquaria
3. Blue zoo (only bought 1 fish)

What does DD stand for?

 

[Kieth71]

Divers Den

 

[MrMoses]

Divers Den

Isn't that the same as live aquaria?

 

[Kieth71]

It is the same company but the DD fish are wyswyg and are put through a much stricter qt regiment.

 

[MrMoses]

It is the same company but the DD fish are wyswyg and are put through a much stricter qt regiment.

Oh they have pretty good price on a dragon eel. Everywhere else they ar $1000.

 

[Elysia]

The solution is somewhat simple, IMO. Dont make it an unconditional guarantee. A water sample must be provided, and the fish must be examined for condition. If there are sign of mechanical injury, damage, disease (ie- open lesions, sores, etc), no refund.

I know that new purchases should be quarantined, but such a policy practically requires quarantine -- I would have to be at the tank the moment an animal expired to retrieve it if I wanted to preserve its body without damage. My clean up crew would be on it immediately!


For fish, I prefer to shop locally where I can observe the fish in question, the system that they are in, and find out the date the fish arrived and (perhaps) where the fish originated from. One store has a five day guarantee, which excludes entire large groups of fish and requires notification, receipt, the fish's body, and a water sample. The other store has no guarantee. Now that I have the backbone fish of my tanks, I will likely be looking for more expensive/sensitive fish, thus I have been crusing Divers Den more frequently.

Regardless of the type of store, a refund of money is always better than store credit, for all of the reasons already mentioned. I am willing to spend more money for a healthier fish, or a fish that is a more appropriate size, or with a business that I feel has good customer service and healthy stock. In fact, with any business, I will spend more to get something locally or to buy from a store with good customer service. I have a long list of businesses that I will not buy from, regardless of price.