Where should I keep Nitrates for the best SPS color?

[Lazylivin]

I always thought 0 nitrates were ideal. Most places I read in the past stated for a coral reef tank undetectable Nitrates where best. Especially for SPS corals.

Achieving that has never been a problem. I have always had smaller fish, fed light and had decent skimmer. I thought that was the right thing to do and good for the coral.

For many years my corals were pale and just not as colorful as I would see them in other tanks. It was disappointing consider how much time I invested in the system and how much work I put into making it stable.

About 3 months ago after conversations with a few hobbyists on my local forum I decided to try raising the nitrate to a detectable level to see if that would influence coral color.

I first started by doubling up on feedings. After a couple weeks there was no change in corals or nitrate level.
A friend recommend buying more fish and feeding even more. I picked up a Powder Blue and Moorish Idol. Once they got out of quarantine both fish where quite skinny and malnourished. I had flat packs and cube trays of frozen foods from Brine Shimp. Thought why not make my own food. Food that would be good for all the fish, inverts and coral. That is what I did, it included Mysis, Krill, Rotifers, Copepods, LOTS of Nori, Brine Shrimp, Reef Chili and other fine Powder Foods.

I feed heavy with the new mix for a few weeks. Noticed my cheato started growing and a bit of hair algae started showing up in the overflow and other areas not reachable by the tangs. Although feeding quite a bit it probably wasn't what others would consider a lot. About 3 "“ 4 cubes a day in total. (300g total system size) Still no improvement in coral color and no nitrates showing yet. I knew they had to eventually show up but I was worried putting all this food in the system"¦. It can't be good for it?

I went on the search for liquid Nitrates. Brightwell sells it although it wasn't readily available, I was able to locate a vendor with the help of Brightwell. The magic juice arrived and I dosed enough to raise the nitrates to 2. The next day after work I noticed my Red Dragon Acro that always looked like a Pink Dragon seemed to have a bit darker color to it. I thought it wasn't possible after 24 hours and blew it off. Two days later it was back to its normal pink color. I checked nitrates and they were back to 0. I didn't know the system would consume Nitrates.

I dosed again. Same amount but this time I decided to test and dose daily to see if it would continue to consume them. I was surprised to find the system consumed .25 - .5 Nitrates per day. The dosing needed to be done daily. I continued to do it daily and was quite surprised to see the color in many corals improving. After about two weeks I decided to raise the Nitrate level up to 5. That is when the color of corals changed quite dramatically. The Red Dragon was as Red as I had seen in any other picture or tank. After about two weeks of this I was almost out of the Nitrate solution and it wasn't cheap.

I didn't want to dose forever and incur another expense so I took the feedings to a whole new level. 6 "“ 10 cubes of homemade food a day + flakes and pellet mix when I am in the room. I have continued to do this for the past month. The fish are looking healthy and very pleased with the transformation of color with many of the corals. If I am lax for a couple days I can see changes in the red dragon. It is the canary relative to nutrients in the tank. I have also noticed a sudden surge in growth of many corals.
I know at some point I will likely have to reduce feedings but will continue to target higher nitrates as I am sold it is a key contributor to maintain the darker deeper coral colors.

Negative Effects. I haven't had the system running higher nutrient for all that long so I don't know if there will be negative effects other than having to clean glass more often or have more algae to deal with.

Other Positive Effects: Prior to running detectable Nitrates in the system I struggled with keeping Phosphate in check. I always had to run GFO or they would creep up on me. Since running higher nitrates I have been able to take the GFO reactor offline. Sounds silly doesn't it. Raise Nitrates and Phosphates go down. I am sure Randy could speak to this but guessing Nitrates and Phosphate consumption is linked. Similar to a coral needing Alk, Ca and Mag ion's to build its coral Skelton. If one is considerably low it can't bind them together or something scientific like that.

I don't know what the sweet spot is with Nitrates but it definitely isn't zero!

 

[Bpb]

http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/potassium-nitrate.html

There you go. High purity powder KNO3. Good stuff. Clean. And a little goes a long way

One teaspoon mixed with 500 mL RODI will raise nitrate 4-5 ppm in 100 gallons of tank water

 

[jda]

.2 is about right for me. I don't shoot for zero, but "clear" on salifert N and P test kits. Too much will turn your corals brown.

If you want to raise it, put your skimmer on a timer and/or remove some macro/chaeto. I know of a few higher end SPS systems that don't run skimmers at all.

Some believe that your nutrient level needs to match your lighting intensity... interesting thought, but if you have lots of high quality, high intensity lighting, then some higher levels might be ok for you.

 

[mhucasey]

I always run with nitrates between 2 and 3 and have very good color, the so's go pale when nitrate goes to 0. I dose calcium nitrate if i need to push the level up.

 

[BrentH]

Thanks for sharing.Im shooting for around no3 of 1 to 5 . Im there now with carbon dosing ... I would add more fish if I were u that will raise your no3 for sure and naturally... I've always struggled with phosphates being really low and I've been dosing sea Chems phosphorus

 

[Aww7979]

I always thought 0 nitrates were ideal. Most places I read in the past stated for a coral reef tank undetectable Nitrates where best. Especially for SPS corals.

Achieving that has never been a problem. I have always had smaller fish, fed light and had decent skimmer. I thought that was the right thing to do and good for the coral.

For many years my corals were pale and just not as colorful as I would see them in other tanks. It was disappointing consider how much time I invested in the system and how much work I put into making it stable.

About 3 months ago after conversations with a few hobbyists on my local forum I decided to try raising the nitrate to a detectable level to see if that would influence coral color.

I first started by doubling up on feedings. After a couple weeks there was no change in corals or nitrate level.
A friend recommend buying more fish and feeding even more. I picked up a Powder Blue and Moorish Idol. Once they got out of quarantine both fish where quite skinny and malnourished. I had flat packs and cube trays of frozen foods from Brine Shimp. Thought why not make my own food. Food that would be good for all the fish, inverts and coral. That is what I did, it included Mysis, Krill, Rotifers, Copepods, LOTS of Nori, Brine Shrimp, Reef Chili and other fine Powder Foods.

I feed heavy with the new mix for a few weeks. Noticed my cheato started growing and a bit of hair algae started showing up in the overflow and other areas not reachable by the tangs. Although feeding quite a bit it probably wasn't what others would consider a lot. About 3 "“ 4 cubes a day in total. (300g total system size) Still no improvement in coral color and no nitrates showing yet. I knew they had to eventually show up but I was worried putting all this food in the system"¦. It can't be good for it?

I went on the search for liquid Nitrates. Brightwell sells it although it wasn't readily available, I was able to locate a vendor with the help of Brightwell. The magic juice arrived and I dosed enough to raise the nitrates to 2. The next day after work I noticed my Red Dragon Acro that always looked like a Pink Dragon seemed to have a bit darker color to it. I thought it wasn't possible after 24 hours and blew it off. Two days later it was back to its normal pink color. I checked nitrates and they were back to 0. I didn't know the system would consume Nitrates.

I dosed again. Same amount but this time I decided to test and dose daily to see if it would continue to consume them. I was surprised to find the system consumed .25 - .5 Nitrates per day. The dosing needed to be done daily. I continued to do it daily and was quite surprised to see the color in many corals improving. After about two weeks I decided to raise the Nitrate level up to 5. That is when the color of corals changed quite dramatically. The Red Dragon was as Red as I had seen in any other picture or tank. After about two weeks of this I was almost out of the Nitrate solution and it wasn't cheap.

I didn't want to dose forever and incur another expense so I took the feedings to a whole new level. 6 "“ 10 cubes of homemade food a day + flakes and pellet mix when I am in the room. I have continued to do this for the past month. The fish are looking healthy and very pleased with the transformation of color with many of the corals. If I am lax for a couple days I can see changes in the red dragon. It is the canary relative to nutrients in the tank. I have also noticed a sudden surge in growth of many corals.
I know at some point I will likely have to reduce feedings but will continue to target higher nitrates as I am sold it is a key contributor to maintain the darker deeper coral colors.

Negative Effects. I haven't had the system running higher nutrient for all that long so I don't know if there will be negative effects other than having to clean glass more often or have more algae to deal with.

Other Positive Effects: Prior to running detectable Nitrates in the system I struggled with keeping Phosphate in check. I always had to run GFO or they would creep up on me. Since running higher nitrates I have been able to take the GFO reactor offline. Sounds silly doesn't it. Raise Nitrates and Phosphates go down. I am sure Randy could speak to this but guessing Nitrates and Phosphate consumption is linked. Similar to a coral needing Alk, Ca and Mag ion's to build its coral Skelton. If one is considerably low it can't bind them together or something scientific like that.

I don't know what the sweet spot is with Nitrates but it definitely isn't zero!

I'm defently in the same boat. Love my Acros but their color just isn't what it could be. I also have started feeding heavily and after testing tonight my phosphates are over 1 and nitrates are still undetectable. I am running bio pellets and gfo and I can see clear reduction in bio pellet size week to week. Tomorrow I am going to shut down the bio pellets and see if I can't raise those nitrates.

Have any before and after pics?

 

[shih87]

It is also a common practice in Taiwan using industry grade KNO3 to keep NO3 up, but I only use it when SPS pale to bleach, but once bleach area recovery, then I stop using it.

 

[jackson6745]

My ideal no3 level is 10ppm. Funny you mention no need for GFO once nitrates rise. I notice the same thing. The last few months my nitrates have been as high as 30, but po4 is never higher than .03 with no GFO

 

[CHSUB]

Not so sure??? The best reefs I have observed and have had always have very low NO3 or undetectable levels of nutrients with hobby grade test kits; with larger fish loads. Currently I'm struggling with color and STN in my 3 year old reef with NO3 < 5 ppm. I have a medium fish load and would like to add more fish and feed more, but believe that will elevate nutrients even higher. Research has noted that sps' are both autotrophic and heterotrophic, so, IMO it's the added food and fish waste that helps with color and growth and not the increase in NO3 on a hobby grade test kit.

 

[phenom5]

My experience has been similar to jackson's. Around 5-10ppm...which for me comes from heavy feeding & heavy export...has always resulted in the best color.

I don't doubt the science CHSUB, that's why reefers have always shot for undetectable NO3...but that's what I have seen in my tanks.

 

[jackson6745]

The thing with 0 nitrate tanks is that they are not all the same. Tanks that maintain 0 nitrate with little nutrient input will almost certainly have faded sps colors unless this is manipulated with various additives. I have seen, and had 0 nitrate tanks with fairly deep colors due to an aggressive filtration system and maintenance routine, coupled with heavy feedings + large bioload. It's almost like the corals had a chance to absorb nutrients, but nutrients were not in the system long enough to accumulate.

I still prefer to maintain a no3 level with low po4. Coral look more healthy, colors are more vibrant, and I get fast growth. I know everyone does things different, and I don't limit myself to one method. This is my current experience.

 

[jackson6745]

Not so sure??? The best reefs I have observed and have had always have very low NO3 or undetectable levels of nutrients with hobby grade test kits; with larger fish loads. Currently I’m struggling with color and STN in my 3 year old reef with NO3 < 5 ppm. I have a medium fish load and would like to add more fish and feed more, but believe that will elevate nutrients even higher. Research has noted that sps’ are both autotrophic and heterotrophic, so, IMO it’s the added food and fish waste that helps with color and growth and not the increase in NO3 on a hobby grade test kit.

Curious what your lighting is, po4 level, and gfo use?

 

[Logzor]

I've had the same experience with feeding, it's very difficult to raise NO3 by feeding alone. Heavy feedings, for me at least, tends to increase PO4 before it ever impacts my NO3. Similarly, I rarely notice an impact to feeding relative to coral color.

What's funny is that I just received a bottle of KNO3 (in the form of stump remover). From what I understand, this product is 100% KNO3. I'm going to experiment with dosing, as I was able to dig up some instructions for creating a solution with the dry powder. I'm looking forward to seeing results, but I plan on testing it on a frag separate system first.

I first became interested in maintaining higher NO3 after seeing the pictures of WWC 's display tank. They maintain 30-40 ppm NO3 and without a doubt, they have some of the best coloration in their acropora compared to any other vendor, perhaps only excluding Jason Fox.

Forgot to ask, what test kit are you using for Nitrates? Salifert?

 

[ridetheducati]

What's funny is that I just received a bottle of KNO3 (in the form of stump remover.

If you are increasing low nitrate levels to approximately 2 - 5 ppm, you will see a change in coral color within 7 days of use and coralline growth rate will increase as well.

 

[Logzor]

If you are increasing low nitrate levels to approximately 2 - 5 ppm, you will see a change in coral color within 7 days of use and coralline growth rate will increase as well.

Good to know! I'm going to take it slow, but I'm looking forward to giving this a try.

 

[amebcia]

My background is in planted freshwater (CO2, NO3, PO4 dosing, 4w/gallon T5 etc). In a planted, freshwater world PO4 and NO3 levels are topic of a constant debate
Now, moving to saltwater I see the same discussions. No surprise here Findings are also similar.

One important and fairly recent finding is that nutrient concentration in a water column and nutrient availability are not the same thing. Thinking about availability instead of nutrient levels makes it easier to understand why some ULNR systems do not show malnutrition, while others do.

In freshwater tanks nutrient availability has been proven to be a factor of two things. Water flow and nutrient concentration in the water column.
In order for nutrients to be absorbed they must get in contact with a plant/coral/bacteria. The thinking is that low flow creates local, low nutrient "bubbles" around plants. High flow allows the plant to be constantly bombarded with nutrients. That theory has been experimentally confirmed showing significant plant growth increase in a system with higher flow.

Another aspect is concentration. A system with very low food input may actually have a close to 0 NO3. One of the previous posts touches on this topic. A system with a high food input and high water flow will always have certain amount of nutrients readily available to plants. Even if not/barely detectable by test kits.

That's my 5cents coming from the freshwater world

 

[BrentH]

30 to 40 nitrates really I'm curious is it wwc corals in floridas tank your talking about? I've always stressed hard on no3 and recently been noticing it's not the end of the world I can't get mine under 5 with carbon dosing but the dosing seems kinda rough on my corals

I've had the same experience with feeding, it's very difficult to raise NO3 by feeding alone. Heavy feedings, for me at least, tends to increase PO4 before it ever impacts my NO3. Similarly, I rarely notice an impact to feeding relative to coral color.

What's funny is that I just received a bottle of KNO3 (in the form of stump remover). From what I understand, this product is 100% KNO3. I'm going to experiment with dosing, as I was able to dig up some instructions for creating a solution with the dry powder. I'm looking forward to seeing results, but I plan on testing it on a frag separate system first.

I first became interested in maintaining higher NO3 after seeing the pictures of WWC 's display tank. They maintain 30-40 ppm NO3 and without a doubt, they have some of the best coloration in their acropora compared to any other vendor, perhaps only excluding Jason Fox.

Forgot to ask, what test kit are you using for Nitrates? Salifert?

 

[sahin]

My background is in planted freshwater (CO2, NO3, PO4 dosing, 4w/gallon T5 etc). In a planted, freshwater world PO4 and NO3 levels are topic of a constant debate
Now, moving to saltwater I see the same discussions. No surprise here Findings are also similar.

One important and fairly recent finding is that nutrient concentration in a water column and nutrient availability are not the same thing. Thinking about availability instead of nutrient levels makes it easier to understand why some ULNR systems do not show malnutrition, while others do.

In freshwater tanks nutrient availability has been proven to be a factor of two things. Water flow and nutrient concentration in the water column.
In order for nutrients to be absorbed they must get in contact with a plant/coral/bacteria. The thinking is that low flow creates local, low nutrient "bubbles" around plants. High flow allows the plant to be constantly bombarded with nutrients. That theory has been experimentally confirmed showing significant plant growth increase in a system with higher flow.

Another aspect is concentration. A system with very low food input may actually have a close to 0 NO3. One of the previous posts touches on this topic. A system with a high food input and high water flow will always have certain amount of nutrients readily available to plants. Even if not/barely detectable by test kits.

That's my 5cents coming from the freshwater world

Your 5cents make every sense to me. Thanks for your post. :thumbsup:

30 to 40 nitrates really I'm curious is it wwc corals in floridas tank your talking about? I've always stressed hard on no3 and recently been noticing it's not the end of the world I can't get mine under 5 with carbon dosing but the dosing seems kinda rough on my corals

Yup, World Wide Corals in Florida. There are many Brits who have visited there and loved their displays. Though heavy on the Actinics, their T5/LED main display is just amazing. There are plenty of photos in the other forum.

They also run most of their systems bare bottomed. Here is a video of their old 300G tank:


The video linked above was a tank run with Radiums. They have larger 630G tank that is run on T5 with LED supplements and it looks just as good, if not better.

 

[Logzor]

30 to 40 nitrates really I'm curious is it wwc corals in floridas tank your talking about? I've always stressed hard on no3 and recently been noticing it's not the end of the world I can't get mine under 5 with carbon dosing but the dosing seems kinda rough on my corals

Just as Sahin posted, it's WWC's display tank at their store in Florida. Vic himself said they run 30-40 ppm nitrates. It's hard to believe, but their corals look pretty incredible!

 

[BrentH]

Thanks I like seeing tanks with diff or high nutrients that are kicking butt