anthonys51
New member
I like to think nitrates are like coffee. One cup in the morning is ok. But if you start having 4 cups a day now we have a problem
Where should I keep Nitrates for the best SPS color?
- Thread starter Lazylivin
- Start date
herring_fish
Crazy Designer
I am tagging along so that I can learn what the best points are for nutrients because I use to run zero for both phosphate and nitrates but I don't think that is a good idea any more.
While reading the thread, I saw that a few people didn't understand how Phosphate (P) could go down when Nitrate (P) goes up. I don't understand most of the mechanisms that are at play in the tank but I thought that I would offer a pruned down version of an explanation that might help.
People have been dosing nitrates for a little while now and if you search around this site you will see threads that address this, sometimes for different reasons. This is one example where they dose nitrates specifically to reduce phosphates.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2210947&highlight=dosing+nitrate&page=28
Algae removes both N and P in a ratio (the Redfield Ratio) that is comparatively balanced with what we add to the tank. Bacteria seems to work better on N than P. Both algae and/or bacteria can be nitrate limited when N is too low. Neither can do their job of consumption efficiently, when N or P is limited. N is more likely to be the limiting factor in our tanks than P.
If you dose N, then algae and/or bacteria is not suppressed and they can go to work. If you have macro and dose N, you may see that is starts to grow faster. With a little more N, you might see algae grow fast enough to start addressing your phosphates and they may come down. The same idea is true of bacteria.
That's why some people that dose vodka have different results, depending on what is in their tank and where there nutrient levels are. If N and P are both high; they may will come down nicely for a while until N become scarce. Then the Macro algae stops working but the bacteria keep going, driving the N lower but not lowering the Phosphate. Eventually the bacteria also becomes limited and it begins to starve. The bacteria that is left keep the N down but the P begins to rise. And then it's time for GFO or a dose of nitrates. Poison becomes food or in other works nutrients becomes nutrition.
While reading the thread, I saw that a few people didn't understand how Phosphate (P) could go down when Nitrate (P) goes up. I don't understand most of the mechanisms that are at play in the tank but I thought that I would offer a pruned down version of an explanation that might help.
People have been dosing nitrates for a little while now and if you search around this site you will see threads that address this, sometimes for different reasons. This is one example where they dose nitrates specifically to reduce phosphates.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2210947&highlight=dosing+nitrate&page=28
Algae removes both N and P in a ratio (the Redfield Ratio) that is comparatively balanced with what we add to the tank. Bacteria seems to work better on N than P. Both algae and/or bacteria can be nitrate limited when N is too low. Neither can do their job of consumption efficiently, when N or P is limited. N is more likely to be the limiting factor in our tanks than P.
If you dose N, then algae and/or bacteria is not suppressed and they can go to work. If you have macro and dose N, you may see that is starts to grow faster. With a little more N, you might see algae grow fast enough to start addressing your phosphates and they may come down. The same idea is true of bacteria.
That's why some people that dose vodka have different results, depending on what is in their tank and where there nutrient levels are. If N and P are both high; they may will come down nicely for a while until N become scarce. Then the Macro algae stops working but the bacteria keep going, driving the N lower but not lowering the Phosphate. Eventually the bacteria also becomes limited and it begins to starve. The bacteria that is left keep the N down but the P begins to rise. And then it's time for GFO or a dose of nitrates. Poison becomes food or in other works nutrients becomes nutrition.
Great info people, thanks.
Great info people, thanks.
I guess I'm a minority but I never bother testing nitrates & phosphates but this thread brings up some really interesting stuff and makes me very curious as to what my N & P levels are at. I think I will have to do some tests ASAP.
It is a mixed bag in my tank, for the most part colors are ok but there always seem to be some corals that consistantly under perform so as mentioned I am curious.
Great info people, thanks.
I guess I'm a minority but I never bother testing nitrates & phosphates but this thread brings up some really interesting stuff and makes me very curious as to what my N & P levels are at. I think I will have to do some tests ASAP.
It is a mixed bag in my tank, for the most part colors are ok but there always seem to be some corals that consistantly under perform so as mentioned I am curious.
Denadai
New member
No3 = 30 ppm and Po4 0.09
No3 = 0 ppm and Po4 = 0.03
I did some tests in the best tanks around here and all of them the No3 was 0 ppm and the colors was amazing
My tank now has 8 ppm of No3 and my goal is to reach 0 ppm ( salifert )
Best Regards
jackson6745
Yeah Yeah
I guess it's all relative to lighting. With 30ppm nitrate I had pretty intense colors. I'm running the tank at 10ppm right now just to keep things a little more safely balanced. I get too busy with work this time of year to be maintaining my parameters with little margin of error.
Lazylivin
Premium Member
If you think about it, a few months after you hit undectable nitrates let us know your thought.
Denadai
New member
I think looking only at N, or even at N and P together may lead to quite conflicting conclusions. As we can see from the previous posts people report good colors with quite a range of N and P levels.
If both N and P are fairly high but at the same time sps do not show an excess of symbiotic algae then I would expect another nutrient being a limiting factor (K and Fe being the major ones).
Another major factor is the amount of light. More light, less symbiotic algae.
E.g. My monti was medium red when it was high in the tank and NO3 was at 8ppm with PO4 at 0.1. Then a piece broke off and fell to the bottom where it was receiving little light. Color changed to brown. Over time my N and P dropped to 0. Monti remained brown. I moved it back to the top of my tank and 2 weeks later it started getting light red color.
If both N and P are fairly high but at the same time sps do not show an excess of symbiotic algae then I would expect another nutrient being a limiting factor (K and Fe being the major ones).
Another major factor is the amount of light. More light, less symbiotic algae.
E.g. My monti was medium red when it was high in the tank and NO3 was at 8ppm with PO4 at 0.1. Then a piece broke off and fell to the bottom where it was receiving little light. Color changed to brown. Over time my N and P dropped to 0. Monti remained brown. I moved it back to the top of my tank and 2 weeks later it started getting light red color.
ccscorpion200
New member
Any update on using the Spectracide to increase Nitrate? Any improvements?
CHSUB
"Certified Hobby Expert"
Marubini and Davies 1996 "...found that enriching water with only 1-5 mM nitrate(unreadable on Salifert NO3 tester,btw) for 30 days doubled the zooxanthellae population, reduced photosynthesis rates, and decreased skeletogenesis by 50%."
keep no3 as low as possible and feed as much as you can, very simple!!!!
keep no3 as low as possible and feed as much as you can, very simple!!!!
Maximus
Active member
I´m keeping mine 0 and will rise to 10 just to test
Beautiful pics! Is that a Lokani at the bottom?
