Where to put a union near return pump

[zeebies]

Never plumbed a thing in my life...

Was planning to put about a foot of 3/4" vinyl tubing on the output of an Eheim 1260 return pump (to keep vibration down). The output is a screw-in fitting on the pump side with a "barbed" end on the hose side. Further up the line, the tubing will connect to hard pvc and then go up to the DT.

Where should a union go so that I can deal with regular maintenance of the pump? Not quite sure if it should attach it directly to the pump or to the tubing or someplace else. The goal is to get the pump out easily.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[stacy_vennes]

heres our plumbing design for our return pump we have a external but you never stated either way but here you go for some ideas

we added two unions and a shutoff valve on the return plumbing on the bottom run of plumbing for easy maintance but you get the general idea and clear vinyl tubing feeds the pump from the sump and then from there its all hard plumbing up to the dt anyways hope that helps

 

[zeebies]

Thanks very much for taking the time to post the pictures stacy_vennes. Your second picture is close to what I'm trying to understand. Mega plumbing you have there!

Sorry I didn't mention that the Eheim 1260 will be internal - in a 20H sump for a 40 breeder.

From what I understand, once I get the end of 3/4" tubing over the barb on the pump output, it's not going to come off. To get the thing on, I'll have to put the hose end in boiling water to soften it up and then pry it onto the barb.

Since a foot long length of tubing will be on - for good - how do I get the tubing + pump (as a unit) off to deal with pump maintenance?

I know that somewhere a UNION fits into this picture, but I can't figure where it should go. Should a short piece of hard pvc come immediately off the pump so that a union could attach to that? Then the vinyl tubing is attached to the other side of the union? Does a union attach to vinyl tubing or does it need hard pvc?

I hope I'm not overthinking this. Very basic questions here, I know.

Open to any suggestions - even a reworking of my "plan." Thanks.

 

[stacy_vennes]

vinyl tubing will come off barb fitting but you do have to work at it but you want you could just run vinyl all the to the dt bulkheads if your tank is drilled in your case what i would do if i was you i would just use vinyl tubing all the way to the tank but make sure you get tubing and barb fittings that work well together and then throw some hose clamps on there as well to control leaks

 

[stacy_vennes]

unions only go on hard pvc but your pump barb fitting should only have 1/2 vinyl tubing on it that way you can take the tubing on and off for maintence and cleaning

 

[shifty51008]

if the pump is external put a tru union ball valve on the output and intake of the pump, if it is internal you just need to put one on the output side.

the tur unions are great as you can turn the water off closest to the pump so when you disconnect it you won't get a ton of water on the floor.

 

[zeebies]

Thanks for the info so far.

My pump outlet is 3/4" (approximately, as it is metric). In order to get regular 3/4" tubing over that barbed outlet I have to heat the tubing and wrestle it over the barb. I don't think once it's on, it will come off easily. That's OK.

So, let's say the tubing coming from the pump outlet is on the barb permanently. Where and how would I place a union near that pump/tubing section so that I can remove the pump as needed?

Shifty, you mentioned "put one on the output side" but how is this done if I have vinyl tubing from the return and unions are only for hard pvc?

Sorry If I'm not getting it yet... :worried: that's why I'm seeking help from the plumbing brains. Thanks for your patience!

 

[uncleof6]

The output is 16/22mm. Nothing you can do with it, properly, where SAE is the standard.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14465443&postcount=7

To answer your question directly, which hasn't been done yet, the union, goes between the pump, and the valve. The valve is required equipment on the pump output.

Hence, attach the union to the pump output, the valve to the union. (speak to sjm817.) I would oversize both to 1", since barb fittings and tubing are just too restrictive. Run a short length of silicon tubing (better than vinyl tubing) after the valve (barb fitting to barb fitting, @ 1") and hard pipe the rest of the return with 3/4" - 1" pipe.

 

[cephalotus]

If you are ok with running vinyl you can use a threaded union with threaded nipples screwed into both sides.

 

[zeebies]

Thank you uncle, I am starting to see the light.

Excuse this possibly ridiculous question but, if my plumbing goes: return pump → ¾" sched 80 fitting screwed in to pump → union → valve → silicone tubing"¦ does that mean that the valve is underwater? If I am way off, I can only hope you get a great chuckle out of this question.

I do plan to T off of the return to both feed a manifold for 2 future reactors and send flow to the refugium. Do I need a valve both before and after the T?

I will take your suggestion to upsize the plumbing until I reach my ¾" hard plumbing. That makes sense too.

Thank you for your suggestion cephalotus.

 

[uncleof6]

Thank you uncle, I am starting to see the light.

Excuse this possibly ridiculous question but, if my plumbing goes: return pump → ¾" sched 80 fitting screwed in to pump → union → valve → silicone tubing"¦ does that mean that the valve is underwater? If I am way off, I can only hope you get a great chuckle out of this question.

It might be. But who cares? It is an on/off to facilitate removal of the pump. That is its only function.

I do plan to T off of the return to both feed a manifold for 2 future reactors and send flow to the refugium. Do I need a valve both before and after the T?

You will need two valves both after the split. These are flow control valves (separate from the on/off valve just off the pump,) and gate valves are preferred.

I will take your suggestion to upsize the plumbing until I reach my ¾" hard plumbing. That makes sense too.

Your tank is too small, and the flow rate too low to justify splitting the return further (after the feed branch.) It simply adds friction loss to the system, which reduces your pump output, which requires a larger pump to do the same job, (and considering the feed branch, you should already be at a 1262) and power heads will still be required. 1" all the way up in a single line and into the tank.

Thank you for your suggestion cephalotus.

 

[zeebies]

OK. I think I've got it now. Thanks very much for taking the time to clarify for me. It helps a great deal.

I also appreciate others chiming in on my little project.

 

[zeebies]

sjm817 used a Spears true union flap type check valves just above his pump. It makes sense to me that if you shut off your pump for feeding everyday, the use of this valve minimizes "drain back" to the sump.

Would this be a good thing to put in place just above the pump output instead of a regular union?

 

[uncleof6]

No it is not a good thing to use. Check valves have a 100% probability of failure. If a check valve is needed to prevent a flood, then you need to redesign the system so it is not needed or you need a bigger sump.

That said, if you have sufficient volume in the sump to contain ALL power out drain down, then there is no point to using a check valve. It can get stuck open or closed, and it restricts the flow. Check valves are frowned upon for use in marine systems.

 

[zeebies]

I have plenty of sump room in case of a power out. So when return pump is turned off at feeding time, water drains down to sump. Then when system starts back up, everything just gets rolling again?

What is the process when someone feeds their tank? Pump turned off? Valves turned off? Any problem getting things started up again? I want to figure this out so I get my plumbing right.

I appreciate the help.