Which Anemone Should I Get?

[Slakker]

Everything that you believe remains unsubstantiated. That's the crux of science, nothing can ever really be proved, only disproved. At this point, there is no possible way to prove that anemones live forever. All we have is our knowledge of their physiology and of cell division, which leads us to believe they have the potential to live indefinitely. There are very likely variables in play that limit that lifespan, predation, climate shift, etc. However, we do have multiple accounts of anemones living for 20+ years in captivity, even one of 75 years.

Even if 50 years is the maximum lifespan for a hosting species of anemone, 18 months is hardly long enough to be considered a success.

You're absolutely right, if people hadn't started keeping anemones 30, 40, 50 years ago, we absolutely wouldn't be where we are in the hobby today. That's no reason to ignore the experience of hundreds of people who have tried to keep anemones in small tanks and found that they're just better left to a larger system with stable water chemistry and ample room for the anemone to grow.

As our technology and understanding of these creatures improves, we're finally reaching a point in the hobby where it doesn't have to be a 1 in 32 gamble anymore. Education is the key to success in this hobby, and we have access to outstanding resources in this age of the internet.

To disregard the information available to us will not beget progress, no matter how relentlessly you accost people who have chosen a different path of learning than yourself.

To say that there is nothing we can do to change the negative outcomes of this hobby is nothing less than ignorance. By advocating the proper care of the creatures we house, we do make a difference. It is selfish, will probably always be selfish, but it doesn't have to be nearly as destructive as it is. Being educated about the creatures you intend to keep is the first step, and we shouldn't be trying to accomplish this by trial and error in scenarios that have been played out time and time again with the same results.

It is a selfish hobby, but it's time we own up for that and start making some more appropriate choices when it comes time to decide what goes in our tank. That's not to say that people shouldn't try new things, they should, that's how we progress, but doing what has failed time and time again without making substantial alterations in the methodology is just senseless and wasteful.

 

[Slakker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12863360#post12863360 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by E.J. Coral
Actually what the article is saying is that the mitotic events replenish cells at a faster rate than they undergo aging. In laymans terms, new cells are being born faster than they can get sick (old). I don't think that it has anything to do with damage during mitosis. You are probably thinking of telomeres and thier relation to immortal cancer cells, but that is a different issue all together.

Sort of, yeah. We age because we have cells that simply don't divide anymore. Brain cells, for example. Once the brain cells we have are damaged, the damage is done, and we either die or become incapacitated in some way. Cnidarians have no such mechanisms, every cell in their system is expendable and replaceable. We've all seen an anemone get sucked through a powerhead and torn up pretty good. We've also all seen pictures of that anemone a couple of months later looking healthy as can be. This is evidence of that. Of course, many get chopped up and die...but I'm left wondering if any of those pieces might have been able to regenerate far enough to form another polyp had a similar incident happened in the wild.

Cells are damaged in the process of fission on a regular basis. This can cause serious health problems with higher organisms, but cnidarians have no cells that are designed to live long enough to accumulate these defects.

 

[E.J. Coral]

<a


href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12863422#post12863422 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
Everythng that you believe remains unsubstantiated...
To say that there is nothing we can do to change the negative outcomes of this hobby is nothing less than ignorance. ...

My claims are substantiated by my EXPERIENCES. I have kept anemones in tanks SMALLER than 20 gallons with PC lighting. This is not conjecture. This is a fact.


Please refrain from calling me ignorant, because I am far from it. My guess is that I have more education, have published more scientific articles, and have educated more people than you have.

I will no longer post in his thread. But please answer my question about cnidarians other than anemones, and why it is OK to keep them in a small tank.

 

[Slakker]

Because the growth of other cnidarians is far more limited and controllable. If an SPS colony gets too large for a tank, it can be fragged off. With the exception of a few, corals are not motile. They don't move around, get sucked into intakes, etc.
In addition, if a coral does die in a smaller tank, it's not likely to be a catastrophic event. An anemone decomposing in a 20 gallon tank while an aquarist is at work all day could very likely kill off everything.

And then of course there are the statistics, which you so readily dismiss because of your vast experience. Just because you pulled it off a couple times doesn't mean that it's the ideal situation in which to keep an anemone, nor does it mean that other people should try it.

If you're not ignorant, great, then stop making ignorant statements. The hobby can become less destructive, and we should be doing what we can to help it along. Keeping creatures in a "bare minimum" situation is not a positive contribution. Once again, just because it can survive under those conditions doesn't mean it should have to.

 

[Craig731]

With no scientific background, nor any studying invested in this topic. I would suggest common sense dictates that one animal cannot be immortal.

Even if all cells were constantly cloned, DNA mutations and copy errors would win in the end.

 

[Slakker]

Probably true that they can't live indefinitely, but there are corals on the reefs that are hundreds of years old. It's entirely possible that the very first polyp that started those colonies is still alive. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that they could live that long, at least.

The reality is, that remains a mystery, but their life span is certainly longer than a few years.

Regardless of their true life span, they deserve the courtesy of being provided with a suitable captive environment.

 

[Der_Iron_Chef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12868505#post12868505 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
Regardless of their true life span, they deserve the courtesy of being provided with a suitable captive environment.

This is true. I suppose "suitable" means different things to different people, though.

 

[davocean]

EJ, I don't understand your being so adamant on proof of nems lifespan?
I mean you can't prove that they can not live for at least a very long time, how old are some of our trees, or reefs.
I like to think posssitive, and I have prepared myself for the fact that these animals will be in my care for a VERY long time, and VERY possibly out live me.