White/gray spots still there...helppppp

[Iam]

Hi all,
I have been waiting for about 7-8 days...
My seahorses developed weird looking white spots (not ich)
they are eating but not as hungry as they ussualy are..they are mostly a sleep.. I can tell their really tired..

I put them in my 10g QT tank.. triple sulfa and neomycin for five days.. But no change..

some people said that I need macro shots.. I did the best I can..

http://www.theactorsproject.com/img/seahorse.jpg

please copy this link and paste into your browser.. I believe just clicking on it wont work..
and this is a huuugeee size image.. so it takes a while to finish loading..

please help... I guess they are slowly dying..
oh by the way, here are my current water levels
temp : 76
ph : 84
ammonia : 0
nitrite 0
nitrate : 0

thank you all..

 

[DanU]

Try to lower the temps if at all possible. Lower temps can slow down bacterial growths. If this is not progressing, i would continue with the neomycin and triple sulpha. What dosages are you using?

Dan

 

[Iam]

The instructions on the label said that
triple sulfa - 1 capsule a day for each 10g (everyother day)
neomycin - 1 capsule a day for each 10g (everyday)

and I believe one capsule is 500mg (or maybe not mg im not sure)
but I had some people here in this forum said that it should be 2500 (five times more than what the label on the medication says)
so I just went with the label...

 

[DanU]

Most over the counter fish meds are under dosed. Dose the lable give the mg per cap? Which brand is it?

Dan

 

[Iam]

the label says 500mg per cap
I can't remember the brand but all yellow packaging

 

[NanoLurker]

it's a great picture. i think i finally understand the fuzziness you were talking about.

couple of things, i know tank temp has been a problem, if you can get it lower that would help. you have to bump up the neomycin to 2500 mg/10 gallons.

is this a picture before you transferred to a barebottom QT tank? if not, move them to a barebottom tank, no substrate, nothing live in the tank.

did you pick up any beta glucan? if so gut load live shrimp with it, i get my shrimp from seawaterexpress.com. i just received a shipment and live in L.A. also so if you want some let me know. we need to get some beta glucan and some other supplements in them asap.

you mention them being tired, are they hitching low in the tank, breathing deep, possibly slower than normal? has their eye movement decreased? do they appear "bloated" at all?

 

[DanU]

The sulpha should contain different meds combined. Whithout knowing them, I can say anything. The neomycin accoding to Noga should be 250 mg/gallon. Normally, most will give the Neomycin and Triple Sulpha and do a 50% water change daily and replace 1/2 the original dose after the water change.

Dan

 

[Iam]

Hi nano...

Nice talking to you again..
actually after 7-8 days I had to get them back in the 30g tank because I couldn't control the ammonia and PH levels in the QT tank.. it was up and down very rapidly..I thought I would kill them just because of that..

so I understand I should put them back in the QT but..
let's go step by step..

here is the current behavior ...........
you mention them being tired, are they hitching low in the tank, breathing deep, possibly slower than normal? has their eye movement decreased? do they appear "bloated" at all? [/B][/QUOTE]
yes two of them (which have the most white area) are low in the tank... breathing deeper and faster.... there is nothing about the eyes yet..

about the temp... I got couple of fans and I can lower it down to 69-70

I only used triple sulfa and neomycin.. but didn't change anything.. ( I was really affraid of using ten times more than what the label said)

so what do I do next.. I am all yours..

 

[TamiW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7736805#post7736805 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NanoLurker

did you pick up any beta glucan? if so gut load live shrimp with it, i get my shrimp from seawaterexpress.com. i just received a shipment and live in L.A. also so if you want some let me know. we need to get some beta glucan and some other supplements in them asap.

I'm not sure using beta glucan on a sick fish is such a good idea. IIRC, the action of beta glucan is to stumulate the immune system to attack yeast cell walls, which leaves the immune system on high alert for the next time there is a foreign invader. I would suspect that diverting the immune systems attention the beta glucan would be a mistake and you would be better off letting the seahorse's immune system fight the current illness.

 

[NanoLurker]

hmmm, never heard that one fishgrrl. i thought beta glucan increased the production of macrophages. i'll run your idea by some people and see what they think.

iam,

i know it's hard to keep ammonia and pH under control in a small tank. i don't want your biofilter to crash in your display tank. i would move them back to the 10 or even a 20 if possible. you're going to use a lot of extra meds and water in the 20 but if it's the only way you can keep your parameters stable i'd use it. i've done it myself in the past, kind of a pain, but stability is key.

the hitching low, deep, slow breathing is rather common when treating bacterial infections. IME, eye movement is good. sometimes they may get catatonic and stop eating. keep an eye on them for bloating, that can indicate edema (fluid buildup) or an increase in internal gases. if that occurs, we'll need to add diamox.

i prefer oral administration of drugs myself, but the neomycin/triple sulfa long term immersion has proven successful. i know it's hard, but trust us on the dosage

 

[TamiW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7737436#post7737436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NanoLurker
hmmm, never heard that one fishgrrl. i thought beta glucan increased the production of macrophages. i'll run your idea by some people and see what they think.

Its entirely possible I am misremembering what I read. I was sure I had read you need to take it before you get sick; but now I can't find anything that says it specifically or why.

Iam, I agree, you really need to treat in a hospital tank. Get yourself some amquel + to help with the ammonia and nitrite for the duration; as well as frequent changes. In the tank, a lot of medications have the problem of binding with decor. In addition to potentionally destroying your biological filtration.

 

[pledosophy]

IME beta glucan is a great thing to use as an additive for a sick seahorse. I can send you some links if you like.

If you are worried about the meds you are using why not order some Neo3 which was designed by seahorses experts for seahorses. ITis available at seahorsesource.com

You will need to do at least a 50% WC daily, replacing the amount same percentage of meds as the amount of water taken out.

Get that temp as low as you can.

I hate to be picky at a time like this but can you describe everything in your system from filtration, to flow, to tankmates, to corals, temp, and sunlight exposure. IMO bacterial infections are often secondary. Let's find the problem, because if you listen to the advice on the anti biotics your seahorse will be returning back to his home soon.

I know it's hard. Your great for trying. Keep it Up. We're rooting for you.

 

[Iam]

thank you all..
OK let's see...
my seahorse tank is a 30g..
4 kudo's
about 20-30lbs LR
bakpak protein skimmer.
rio 600 powerhead
ph: 84-86
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
it's a bright room but no direct sunlight..
temp - now 72-74 (thought it's been always around 80 - LFS said that I should be around 82)

no corals.. I had I red sponge.. but died 3 month ago (My girlfriend didn't like the algea on it and tried to wash it...it was already exposed to air when I caught her)

I have one dotty back in the tank with the horses.. Really shy and peaceful one..
about 5 turbo snails..
Feeding: I normally give them either live or frozen brainshrimp and once a week ghost shrimp.. Lately I started gut loading the brianshrimp with sprirulina...

so let me know if we need more information?
thank you everyone..

 

[pledosophy]

They need to eat better then that. If they eat frozen brineshrimp try frozen mysis instead. It has a better nutritional profile. Brineshrimp is also thought to hard for them to digest by evidence of looking at there poo.

The lower tank temp should help you out in the future as well. 80F is fine for some reefs, but not for seahorses.

Is the skimmer powered by the rio?

Keep up the good work on the meds.

 

[DanU]

Iam, Live brine shrimp, because of it's lack of nutritional value, needs to be enriched before feeding out. While this can be done if you have the right enrichment products, the ghost shrimp is a much better choice as a daily food. Ideally, you want to get the horses eating frozen mysis which is easier and much more cost effective long term.

Dan

 

[Iam]

Hi Dan,

Thank you so much for your help.. I try the spriluna for the brian shrimp before feeding the seahorses.. is it good enough?

3 of my horses eat frozen but only one of them won't do that (she is the one on the picture that got this fungus or whatever it is)

yeah and I give them ghost shrimp..