Who can help...

[cowcio]

Who can help test the weight capacity of my floor? My apartment at school is not exactly the newest place on the block. I will be upgrading to a 125 gallon here at my apartment and I would like to make sure that my floor will hold it. Being on the third floor of an older house in little Italy is not exactly the best place to take a risk. If you can help me with this, or tell me where to get help, I would appreciate it.

Thanks-
Josh

 

[scottfarcuz]

Any idea when the place was built?

I don't know of any method to test weight capacity. An engineer could calculate the average capacity, but without the framing being open on all levels for inspection of material/method of framing used I doubt you will get any assurance in writing.

A 125 would probably average around 1000lbs over a 4-6ft span really doesn't add up to much, but that static load on the 3rd story of a building possibly using balloon construction would scare me. I've opened up too many pre 50's houses to find floor joists hacked off when duct work or plumbing was added later. Not to mentiond joists hanging from 2 or 3 cut nails.

They don't build em like they did back then....for a reason

 

[Jamokie01]

I have some pretty large friends Josh, Im sure if you set up a couch and some chipotle we could get a pretty good idea of what your floor can hold.

 

[cowcio]

I was estimating 2000 lbs. with sump in refugium in the stand. It is a 6 ft. tank, so if I check which direction the joists are laid, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7557251#post7557251 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jamokie01
I have some pretty large friends Josh, Im sure if you set up a couch and some chipotle we could get a pretty good idea of what your floor can hold.

Now that's an idea Que Tal has burrito party platter for 12 people. I figure that 5 or 6 large people could probably handle that!

 

[itZme]

The only way I know of testing it would be using strain gauges and tesing the amount of deflection with the load on it. That is expensive and probably not something you would want to go through. There is a great webpage devoted to explaining why you can not get a definitive answer to this question. HERE'S A LINK

Hope that helps.
-- Kevin

 

[cowcio]

Thanks Kevin. That was very helpful, I appreciate the time and thought you put into that (I assume that it was you). However, I'm now even more confused about what to do. I guess, if I decide that this won't work out, I will have a 125 gallon reef setup for sale. I really hope that I can work it out though.

Is there any way that I can tell which way the joists are running and how far apart they are without tearing up the floor?

 

[EYESEEU]

FWIW I wouldnt try it Im sure the house is balloon construction if you dont know what is meant by that term look into it, it'll scare you. Those houses are old down there Lil Italy BTW

 

[oldreefer76]

Balloon framing started around 1833, and am sure your residence is framed that way and as scotfarcuz stated any renovations to plumbing, hvac, electrical that have been done to the premises have probably greatly jeopardized the integrity of the structure, I would not even try to put that type of weight load per foot load on a third floor stucture where you live, in fact older multi story balloon type construction buldings are a fire fighters nightmare as they will normally collapse and many a fire fighter has died inside of these buildings fighting the fire

 

[VoidRaven]

Tell you what, after reading up on balloon framing...and knowing how old many of those houses are in little Italy, I don't know if I would risk it. Find out when it was built. Go this website: http://auditor.cuyahogacounty.us/repi/

Type in the address (parcel number is better if you have it) and it'll give you all kinds of info on the house that is on file. The year the house was built will show up under the "Residential Building Sketch" tab. If you need help let me know.

 

[bigdaddyadam]

not that I am an expert, also I'm new to your board so you don't have to listen to me, but FWIW when I wanted a bigger tank in my current place I went through the same thing as you...after looking into it I decided not to risk anything over a 55 gallon tank, and I am in a fairly new apartment building with good flooring...my new place will be a highrise and has concrete flooring between floors so no worries at the new place

at around 12 pounds per gallon with a 125 gallon tank you are looking at around 1500 pounds just with the water, plus rock, plus sand, plus the tank and stand weight, plus any water in the sump....all of that spread over a VERY small area of floor

the potential for a catasrophic failure of the flooring is HIGH if the floor is old and not well built, even if placed in the room correctly, if nothing else you may cause serious deflection and floor damage.

also the six guys standing in the same space arguement doesn't apply because that is not a static or dead load, it's a live load, which doesn't affect flooring in the same way. think of your tank as a waterbed, but much heavier and less spread out, you wouldn't risk a waterbed on a 3rd floor like that, don't risk a tank

just my 2 cents but you could end up doing a LOT of damage to the structure and possibly hurting somone very badly...also fwiw, many older apartment buildings will not allow fish tanks over a certain size, for instance 65 gallons, for fear that a leak could damage the building

 

[greg10]

12 pounds/gallon seems a little high. fresh water is 8.33 pounds/gallon.

 

[bigdaddyadam]

sorry, seems as though I was using a figure that included the tank weight, which threw off my division

saltwater weighs 9.2 pounds per gallon, but that can vary depending on the salinity, higher SG more weight

All Glass lists the filled weight of a 125 at 1400 pounds, I believe that includes the tank as well, not sure about the stand too, but lets assume it does.

then also let's figure at least 150 pounds of liverock and sand, probably much more than this.

let's figure the sump, which on a tank this big will probably be at LEAST 40 gallons, so add another 455 pounds per All Glass again

add perhaps another 50 pounds for equipment, livestock, etc...this may be too much but we did skimp on the rock weight.

total you are looking at around just over 2000 pounds

if you assume that the stand makes contact along the whole base then that weight is spread out over about 9 square foot which would mean about a little more than a 222 pounds per square foot, that is not a lot of live load, but a dead load like an aquarium, that is a LOT.

I estimate that my 55 with sump, rock, et all is about 800 to 900 pounds, spread out over 4 square feet of surface, but not really since only the edges of the stand touch the floor. figured out my tank puts about the same amount of weight per square foot onto my floor as your tank would. it is against a load bearing wall, in the smallest part of the room that barely fits it, so it has as much of the load bearing on the walls as possible...in addition I have decent floors, probably better than your floors sound like...I have some noticable deflection in the floor...

add the added weight of your tank and that is a LOT, unless the room you are keeping it in has no other furniture in it at all, the floor probably will not support this kind of weight for a long period

in a 10 by 20 foot room rated at 40psf you are utitilizing one fourth of the rated weight for the whole room in one small area, not wise

I am not saying the tank will crash through the floor, it may not, but it may even just tilt a little, causing seam stress and an eventual leak...a guy on the NORA board had a large tank, I believe around 100 or more gallons leak last year....MAJOR damage, I am talking thousands of dollars in damage, new floor etc.

my opinion don't risk it, save the tank until a better location, or trade it to someone for a smaller tank, like a 75 or something

 

[cowcio]

I purchased an entire setup with hopes that it will work out. I could just set it up at my parents house with no problems at all. Or maybe I will piece out a few of the things that I won't be needing, like some of the LR and sand and add most of the livestock to one of my other tanks. I currently have a 55 and a 45 gallon in the apartment and a 200 gallon at my parents house. I was going to take down the 55 and replace it with the 125.

I was already having doubts, hence asking for help here. I will most likely keep the tank at my parents house and take what ever livestock I really like up here. That sounds like the safest idea for me

Thanks for all of your help everybody.

 

[Brad Black]

Seriously, if you are thinking about really doing this, look at it like a small car parked in your living room. Not a good idea at all. I am a fireman and whoever talked about baloon constr. was right on the money. New house or old, flooring systems are just not designed to bear that kind of load. I have a 100 gal tank in my living room, but I beefed up the floor underneath with 3 LVL/laminate beams 1st, and still have plaster cracking in places. Not to mension that if you don't own that home, you would be very irresponsible if you had all this advice and still did it anyway. I own some rental property and all I have to say is it better not be one of mine or your out on your @$#!

 

[cowcio]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7576491#post7576491 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Brad Black
Seriously, if you are thinking about really doing this, look at it like a small car parked in your living room. Not a good idea at all. I am a fireman and whoever talked about baloon constr. was right on the money. New house or old, flooring systems are just not designed to bear that kind of load. I have a 100 gal tank in my living room, but I beefed up the floor underneath with 3 LVL/laminate beams 1st, and still have plaster cracking in places. Not to mension that if you don't own that home, you would be very irresponsible if you had all this advice and still did it anyway. I own some rental property and all I have to say is it better not be one of mine or your out on your @$#!

lol... you're obviously passionate about this, but if you read my post right above yours I stated that I will more than likely set it up at my parents house in the basement on a cement floor.

Besides, I don't think my landlord will be having me out on the street anytime soon... unless you have any recommendations of a person willing to pay 1k a month for rent in little Italy.

You're right, it would be irresponsible to set it up after this advice. That's why I asked for advice, so that I could come to a conclusion.

Thanks to everybody that provided helpful information. I appreciate all of you taking time to reply to this.

 

[Brad Black]

Good for you, just giving you a little ribbing for comedy's sake...thought you might get a laugh. Anyway good luck with that and bye the way, call me if your willing to cough up that 1K for rent in my neck of the woods! LOL. I wish!

 

[fnicklaus]

What is L,W,H of aquarium?

What is L,W,H of aquarium?

If you could tell me the dimensions of your tank, I can tell you what the approximate weight of your tank is. You will probably need to have a building inspector tell you if your floor structure can support the weight though. I am going to guess that once you add rocks,water,and specimens your tank weight will be around 1,000 pounds.

 

[Morgandy]

Josh,

I'm pretty much in the same situation as you; an early to mid-1800's house with floors that probably aren't safe to put decent tanks on. I've set up my 65 again, in an area that is probably safest, but just putting up my 75 with a decent sump is making me really nervous, and I'll be po'd if I can't find a way to have it!! It's too bad you got the big one and won't be able to use it at your place, but geez those houses and apt's are tiny there anyways, so surprising there would have been room anyways!

So folks, if I go in the basement, what would I look for to see the situation and to determine the feasibility of putting mine in? I've heard differing opinions on putting some sort of braces and support beams in.

thx..

 

[cowcio]

lol.... my apartment is not your typical Little Italy Apartment. I couldn't stand to live in some of the places they have around here! I don't care if I go broke, I can't shower in a place that looks like it hasn't been cleaned since 1942.

I have a living with sky lights and 14 feet ceilings. It was redone 10 years ago. There is a vintage wood burning stove in great condition and the bathroom has heated floors!

I have 1 tank in my living room and I have 1 tank and a few holding tanks (rubbermaids) in my second bedroom.




Oh... why can't we all live in a perfect world with our own personal oceans located at bedside....

 

[PruneHands]

If you like to live with a little risk and have not already given up on the 125 in your apartment you may want to consider building a base for the tank that distributes the load over a larger area. Think of it like a snowshoe - spreads your weight out so your foot doesn't sink in the snow. The framing of this base would need to be very rigid so that the load is distributed beyond the immediate vicinity of the tank. Wood may not be suitable. If, for example, you laid down two steel I-beams (8" cross-section) that spanned the length of the room you could put your stand on those and effectively distribute the weight of the tank over the entire width of the room instead of just the 4 or 5 joists direclty under the tank. You could get creative with the I-beams to decorate them or otherwise blend them into the room.

Considering that the tank is comparable to having an extra 10 average sized people in your room you probably should avoid large parties or the venue could quickly spread to your neighbors place below.

If you are really worried about the floor holding up just hang the tank from the ceiling using some chains. They have some new dry-wall anchors that I heard are very strong : )