who has a problem with wild collecting?

[ctenophors rule]

as it says above, i would like to know why somepeople are against small scale wild collecting, for yourself, and maybe a few others, but ultimately not for profit.

what cons are their?

by wildcollecting you are saving all the fish that die in the shipping processes.

by wild collecting you could possibly help reduce the population of non native invasive species. or create a native fish tank that will beter educate those who visit your humble abode.

you will beter understand your environment.

i dont see any cons.

care to share?

 

[Beaun]

The only issue that could possibly arrise is a case of "The Tragedy of the Commons". If everyone says "I'm just taking a few" then it really starts to add up, which is why we have catch limits for fishing.

I collect locally in the Northeast US and have no problem with the practive of collecting just for personal use. As long as you are not breaking laws for game fish (size limits) then it should be fine. I agree that creating a native species tank is both educational and enlightining. Not many people realize what is out in local waters or cant appreciate them in the wild settings.

 

[ctenophors rule]

i like that "tragedy of commons" i will have to remember that for debates!

but following those rules, or even slightly exceeding them, we would still have less fish loss than what we have now.

so why is their so much negativity towards it.

on another post someone said that wild collecting is bad for the reef keepers image?

i've heard people get into masive arguements over wild collecting on other forums as well.

why is their any problem, what are the aposing arguments.


i personaly have been yelled at while collecting animals that are completely legal, i have a liscence and everything.

(best part, i was collecting for a science project studying the affects of ocean acidification on snails( nassarious, cerith, etc)

 

[username in use]

I am all for wild collecting as long as its done responsibly and within the law. Id hate to see endangered species taken out of the breeding pool, but I dont see anything wrong with it in practice. Besides, any one of us would probably be a lot more responsible in our collection methods than the people that collect the fish that we all buy at stores.

 

[KarlBob]

In the discussions I've seen, the distinction is not so much "personally wild-caught" vs. "tank raised", but more like "wild-spawned" vs. "tank raised". The idea is that each "wild spawned" fish collected robs an ecosystem of an inhabitant. "Tank raised" broodstock comes from the wild, but each generation after that includes hundreds of fry that would have died in the wild before reaching display size.

I haven't seen many discussions pitting "professionally caught by divers thousands of miles away" vs. "personally caught at the beach near my house". I agree that catching your own fish is likely to result in fewer shipping deaths, but it is subject to local and national laws.

 

[iamwrasseman]

i will probably get some flack for this but i am for it in many ways . we are living on a planet that is as closed as a fish tank ,and we are polluting it at an astonishing rate ,we are and will ruin this place! we are the smartest "animal"living and we are so smart that we cant see beyond our noses . yes im sorry to say , take everything ,take it all . we are committed to a death sentence in this world and within a small time this planet will burn ,freeze,and then burn again so what does it matter what we do . humans may posess the knowledge to save tha planet but are to money oriented to see past the next few decades and i am sorry to inform you that we will distruct this place one way or another .man made disease's, pollution,religeous differences ,and a myriad of other insane problem exist and we will never do anything to rid this world of hate and distruction because it just happens to be that way . i really am sorry to say but take it all while its there to be taken !...............some may hate my response but thats the general direction that we are headed in and i really , really dont see anything different happening in this greed filled world .sorry but thats my 2 pennies.

 

[ctenophors rule]

thank you everyone, i appreciate the imput from all.

iamwrasseman, prepare to be torn a new one. lol

but seriously, i thought like you with all the points exept the "collect it all, man", until i read that last thurday the epa was granted the ability to override congress and enforce stricter co2 regulations.

the tunnel is brightening, but are we too late to avoid the train?
( wow that was totaly my own, it just came to me)

 

[iamwrasseman]

nice saying you put together there ! really i may have overdone it a bit but you have to understand that at present growth the world will be overpopulated in less than a century ,we will have no food or resourses . put that together with the fact that our capabilities of being able to erradicate all life forms probably more than a thousand different ways its really just a matter of time .no matter what, we are creating our own coffins and we needed to figure that out about fifty years ago and start doing something then . we are way to far behind to ever catch up .i am a very optimistic person in life but i also am very realistic . i really do not enjoy having thease thoughts but we must all be realistic here .being responsible in reef inhabitant collecting is never going to change the path that our world is on so realistically what does it really matter ? to little too late IMO

 

[mushroom head]

I totally agree,we just take...and ...take....till there is no more.There's fish at lps all over the world,that should never be taken from our oceans.But we just keep buying them,they die shortly after,and just go buy another one.

 

[billsreef]

To go with the can't do anything about it, so just take and take till there is nothing left is a great way to absolutely ensure that there will be nothing left

 

[ctenophors rule]

nice bill.

i dont believe in overpopulations, as of now only 5 percent of the earths surface is being used by humans. but i do see where you are com ing from, their is a unique balance that we have been pushing to the limits.

from what i have read we aren't yet too late, we just need drastic measures put into place.

china is regulating child births +1

most of the rest of the world regulates who gets to go to school based on apptitude +1

and we aren't doing either, but we are regulating the co2 emmited by the companies within our borders, and i believe if i read the article right, the will be able to stop the us from trading with companies overseas that aren't up to standards.

we have an oxygen powered car coming to market soon, and it will start at 18,000, but in india a similar car is 2,000$

we have started renourishing estuaries, and making it far more difficult (not impossible) for them to be developed, and estuaries, and that can save the us around 7,730$ in tertiary waste and in life support (defending beeches, removing co2 from air,etc).

their is so much more i could go on about, but i realy think that IF their is a chance to save our planet, it can only be reached by EVERYONE pulling together, fighting the same common enemy we will call climate change, and rising above, a greater, and mor eproductive earth.

for example, today i am sick, and i am making legislation that will make dune renourishment and dune developement nigh impossible to have happen, uinless for an educational purpose. but proff of the educational merit will have to be clearly outlined in a report to one form of government. (as i said still working on it
) when i am done, and have had it checked by more educated people than y self, i will post it hear, set up a website where people may sign under it if they aprove, and i will actively campaign it.

 

[iamwrasseman]

we are regulating co2 pollution ? yes on a certain level but have you ever heard about buying pollution credits ? this is when BIG companies pay money to over pollute ,the more they pay the more they can pollute. there are no real limits to the amount that they can pump into the air . why are all of the adirondeck lakes and ponds dead? ans,detroit pollution buying credits still to this day .almost all of chinas lakes and streams are so polluted now because there are no laws to even enforce . california has hydrogen cars uh , six of them and they are studying to see the if they are okay .where are we gonna get the hydrogen in say nevada? there are to many screwed up things in this world to even make a dent trying to repair any of them .yes this balance is being tested every day and it will tilt the scale soon to a point of nonreversability . where is the water from the polar caps going ? how many islands are going to be under water or diminish to a pinhead above water .as i stated before i am an optimist but with strong ties to reality and we are going to have alot of "fun "in the next fifty to one hundred years .

 

[ctenophors rule]

but all that "buying pollution credit" is going to end, the epa can overide congress. unless the epa is corrupt, in which case their is a realy easy fix( old yeller style) that will cease to happen.

i know what the reality of the situation, but instead of domb saying before the majority of people loose hope do something.

eeucate the masses.

write legislation!

i am 14. if a 14 year old can write legislation, go ouit and collect signature, write letters for support, and eventualy when i am fuly prepared try to pass it through my county, then tallahasee(i am in florida) every single person on hear can do the same!

recently a study showed that some sponges , i believe the cryptic ones, feed 90% off of dissolved carbon. poison ivy's limiting factor is nutrients, phytoplankton is easily grown at our own house with only the cost of water, if you have the skimmate for it. if not you can always use cheap fertilizer, or make your own with a compost.

and if you realy want the hydrogen car in nevada, start a petition.

get 20-30,000 signature, write legislation, you will get that car, or atleast enough media coverage, that if you keep capmaigning you will eventualy get the car.

(though why use hydrogen, when they have oxygen)

 

[iamwrasseman]

they have hydrogen cars already built and sold in california and less then four hydrogen stations for them so ehere are they going with that technology at its current rate ? as far as oxygen being used for fuel its to far away to use across the board ,heck they cant even do without the older cars that are known heavy polluters because it reaches to far into the infastructure of america !it cost billions of dollars to concieve ,build,maintain,and provide fuel for any new technology as far as transportation. if you are 14 i really feel for you because it will get crazy in your life time .i literally could spend hours explaining how we have screwed ourselves to the point of near extinction in the near future but that would bore you and also waist my time . the thing to do is to have fun while were here and dont get hurt doing it .20,000signitures are not going to do anything in our present government.the pollution credits will end when all the industries money runs out ,thats when it gets really fun when we dont produce a thing here in america and all out money goes to some other country .the well will run dry and it really doesnt have much water in it now !also the use of hydrogen is because it is in every drop of water and is easily used with present technologies and it's byproduct would be oxygen so you can put it in your car !i wish the best for you in your endevers whatever they may be.

 

[ctenophors rule]

i think we are going to halve to agree to disagree, if i may use the
old cliche.

although i would like to end with this.

i whole heartedly dont expect my bill to be passed.
thats the honest truth. but i do know that if enough bills like this are proposed, and if their is enough support, than our government, by its very definition, will have to bend to our will.
for if they dont, they will have me, and all my powers as a citizen of this once great nation to face.

and the impending impeachments, aint so peachy.

also, i just reread my orriginal post, and we realy begged the question here! lol

we went from wild collection, to future of america!

 

[iamwrasseman]

i was using the future for my basis that we should take what we want out of the ocean because as i stated above we are really screwing things up 24/7/365 everywhere . sorry to obscure your original question but as i said what was being pointed out is the obserd stupidity of technology and the american way of life . thanks for not hiring a hitman on me !

 

[ctenophors rule]

no problem, i thi9nk that the purpose of this is for educational discussion for the betterment of oursleves and others, and this conversation did just that.

and as for the hit man, its pretty early to start thanking me.

you think i am stupid enough to tell him to hit you durring our little conversation?

wait a month or two, then thank me. lol

 

[iamwrasseman]

i hear ya and please dont take my statements wrong ,as i said its really not us its the rest of the world that cant be controlled . government can and will be bought no matter what we do so its a coin flip weather or not the right things happen . i just really think that its a bit to little way to late as far as pollution and the economy is concerned and that is why i say take it while its there because we will exterminate this planet one animal by one .

 

[ctenophors rule]

i hear you as well.

and i dont take comments strongly, wheather they are affirmative or negative. that is another problem we have with our government. as soon as someone says something that goes against their beliefes (and i have noticed this more in the republican, specificaly rush limba suppoorting religious republicans)(just an observation, i hold ties with niether party)
and you get yelled at and filabustered till everything goes their way. if they realy cared about the good of the country they would set their egos aside and listen to what others had to say.
( though they would probably have to cut down thousands of acres of trees to fit all the ego's) 8)

thank you for the engaging conversation, but i have to get a good nights sleep for tommorow.

tommorow, i start collecting signatures! (cant hurt)

 

[iamwrasseman]

good luck ,you should still remain optimistic and at least try to help . i am 47 yrs old and am tired of trying to change the unchangable so now that you have started i give my position to you and i hope you do well ! i also appreciate your views and comments ..................................nice day 2 u