timrandlerv10
New member
i want to start soon...maybe next month.
thoughts and lessons learned please!
thoughts and lessons learned please!
who is culturing live foods, esp copepods and phyto?
- Thread starter timrandlerv10
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Philip Root
Premium Member
I am culturing Phyoto and rotifers
Tomoko Schum
New member
I also culture three types of phyto, rotifers, tiggerpods, daphnia, brine shrimp and microworms. I have been culturing these over 6 years.
It's easy and fun to culture bugs - it's a hobby in itself. However, it takes dedication.
Cleanliness is the key for culturing. You also need to keep a back up culture. A lot of people lose their cultures to bacterial contamination and cross contamination with rotifers - leading to crash due to eventual starvation.
Tomoko
It's easy and fun to culture bugs - it's a hobby in itself. However, it takes dedication.
Cleanliness is the key for culturing. You also need to keep a back up culture. A lot of people lose their cultures to bacterial contamination and cross contamination with rotifers - leading to crash due to eventual starvation.
Tomoko
timrandlerv10
New member
hey tomoko...could i come see your setup one day this week? madison is *sort of* on my way home 
Philip Root
Premium Member
Tomoko I would like to expand my cultures, Could I get some starts from you?
Thanks
Philip
Thanks
Philip
Tomoko Schum
New member
Sure. Which one do you need? I have Nanochloropsys, Tetraselmis and Isochrysis.
Tomoko
Tomoko
Philip Root
Premium Member
All I have now is the Nano, I would like to get some Tetraselmis and Isochrysis. I started Isochrysis once before but never got it to take well. What are you using for food for the cultures? I use MICRO ALGAE GROW from flordia aqua farms.
Also haow do you culture tiggerpods?
Also haow do you culture tiggerpods?
Tomoko Schum
New member
I am using Micro Algae Grow, too. I understand that Isochrysis is not easy to start from a disc that you can buy form Florida Aqua Farm. I was going to purchase a vial of Iso from Seahorsesource.com, but I found someone who runs a high school project/salt water Lab on eBay and got it from the high school lab. I put it under a microscope and saw that they are a pure Isochrysis - no contamination. I believe a number of NARC members saw the microscope images of all three when I showed them at WEEC.
Tomoko
Tomoko
timrandlerv10
New member
oh boy, here they come:
which is the best, if i can do only one, for feeding mandarins?
which is the most resistant to human-error induced death?
what is mcro algae grow?
is there a way to grow part of the culture, say above the DT, and have water (presumably with some pods in it) trickle down into the DT to help supplement food without having to be caught and fed?
which is the best, if i can do only one, for feeding mandarins?
which is the most resistant to human-error induced death?
what is mcro algae grow?
is there a way to grow part of the culture, say above the DT, and have water (presumably with some pods in it) trickle down into the DT to help supplement food without having to be caught and fed?
Tomoko Schum
New member
My culture station is a sturdy metal shelves I bought from Lowes. It doubles as a seed starting stand in spring and fall. I have a 4 foot shop light suspened above each shelf. The lights are on a timer to come on at 7:00 am and turn off at 9:00 pm.
Here is my phyto set up:
I use Aquafina bottles because I like its large opening. I drilled a 3/16 inch or 1/4 inch hole on the cap and insert a section of rigid airline. Airlines are connect to my Tetra air pumps via two 12 port gang valves :
Both Nanochloropsys and Tetraselmis were started from the discs I bought from Florida Aqua Farm. Isochrysis (the brown algae) came from a high school lab as I mentioned previously. I have two sets each of these three type of phyto brewing on my stand.
I split one bottle every morning into two sterile empty bottles, top off with salt water in the container on the right (sg:1.021) and 0.4 ml of Micro Algae Grow to get the new bottles going. I feed the other bottle to my rotifers, copepods and my reef tanks.
Here's the picture of Micro Algae Grow:
My rotifer jars on the shelf below. I forgot to take a picture of my copepod jars but they look just like rotifer jars:
I make a point of not handling any bugs before I touch my phyto culture set-up. This is important since so many people lose thier phyto cultures to rotifers.
I collect my rotifers using 20 micron sieve I bought from Florida Aqua Farm. I avoid putting the culture water (probably high in nitrate due to the rotifer waste) into my tanks:
My DIY bbs hatching cone:
My daphnia culture (fresh water)
Tim -
I don't think you can do a tickle feed set up with rotifers and copepods. Someone posted a picture of his surge feeder before somewhere. I have to dig up the link. However, it seems to me that it's just another complication I don't need.
My friend trickle-feeds his killifish with moina. He simply add a small amount of water using 1 gph irrigation drip connectors attached to a header pipe. An overflow is a U tubes made from an silicone airline tubing supported with PVC pipes and connectors. This works only as an overhead feeder. The water from the overflow goes to the house drain - it's like a constant automatic water change.
Tomoko
Here is my phyto set up:
I use Aquafina bottles because I like its large opening. I drilled a 3/16 inch or 1/4 inch hole on the cap and insert a section of rigid airline. Airlines are connect to my Tetra air pumps via two 12 port gang valves :
Both Nanochloropsys and Tetraselmis were started from the discs I bought from Florida Aqua Farm. Isochrysis (the brown algae) came from a high school lab as I mentioned previously. I have two sets each of these three type of phyto brewing on my stand.
I split one bottle every morning into two sterile empty bottles, top off with salt water in the container on the right (sg:1.021) and 0.4 ml of Micro Algae Grow to get the new bottles going. I feed the other bottle to my rotifers, copepods and my reef tanks.
Here's the picture of Micro Algae Grow:
My rotifer jars on the shelf below. I forgot to take a picture of my copepod jars but they look just like rotifer jars:
I make a point of not handling any bugs before I touch my phyto culture set-up. This is important since so many people lose thier phyto cultures to rotifers.
I collect my rotifers using 20 micron sieve I bought from Florida Aqua Farm. I avoid putting the culture water (probably high in nitrate due to the rotifer waste) into my tanks:
My DIY bbs hatching cone:
My daphnia culture (fresh water)
Tim -
I don't think you can do a tickle feed set up with rotifers and copepods. Someone posted a picture of his surge feeder before somewhere. I have to dig up the link. However, it seems to me that it's just another complication I don't need.
My friend trickle-feeds his killifish with moina. He simply add a small amount of water using 1 gph irrigation drip connectors attached to a header pipe. An overflow is a U tubes made from an silicone airline tubing supported with PVC pipes and connectors. This works only as an overhead feeder. The water from the overflow goes to the house drain - it's like a constant automatic water change.
Tomoko
timrandlerv10
New member
how do you sterilize your bottles? dishwasher no soap?
you do that every morning? what happens if you dont?
which one of those three are best for mandarins?
bbs, rotifers--is that what you would feed baby clowns?
how long does it take to grow a stock to be strong/large enough to feed--how far before getting a mandarin or hatching clowns would i have to start?
these are in your garage...how much enviromental instability is there? my garage goes from 40 in the winter to 120 in the summer...and my wife isnt letting me bring that stuff inside!
you do that every morning? what happens if you dont?
which one of those three are best for mandarins?
bbs, rotifers--is that what you would feed baby clowns?
how long does it take to grow a stock to be strong/large enough to feed--how far before getting a mandarin or hatching clowns would i have to start?
these are in your garage...how much enviromental instability is there? my garage goes from 40 in the winter to 120 in the summer...and my wife isnt letting me bring that stuff inside!
Tomoko Schum
New member
They are not in my garage. I have this set up inside my house and the temperature is pretty stable. Beaslbob has his phyto and rotifers in garage and his go through seasonal declines.
I have a instant hot water maker at my sink. It dispenses 190 degree F water. Boiling water will deforms your bottle but not 190 degree water. I normally sterilize three sets of bottles with this hot water. I don't do more because after awhile the bottles get contaminated with airborne bacteria such as cyano and others. No soap or detergent in the bottles. I don't know if detergent residue will kill rotifers, but it sure did my son's triops to my dismay and to his horror (he was very young at the time.)
I don't think mandarin goes for rotifers. They are better off with benthic type like herpacticoid copepods.
Baby clowns eat bbs and rotifers. A lot of breeders keep their clownfish larvae in green water and rotifer mixture initially. Green water will help keep the nitrate and phosphate level down for the lavae. They are started on bbs after a few days to a week from hatching.
It takes about 5 to 6 days for phytoplankton to get concentrated enough from splitting. If you start from the disc, it takes about two weeks till you can start splitting regularly. Rotifers can double their density in less than 24 hours. You need to figure out how fast your rotifers and other bugs clear phyto in the culture water and figure out how much and how often to feed. Live phyto will stay in the water column until they are consumed. It all depends on the density of the bugs and the size of the containers.
My rotifers in 1 to 2 gallon jugs clears a 1/4 cup "dark green" phyto in two days. I keep their container green so they won't run out of phyto. When they do, the density will drop.
bbs hatches in about 18 to 20 hours right now at 78 degree water. In winter they are definitely slower. You need to harvest them when they just hatched. Otherwise their nutritional values (from the egg sac) will drop rapidly. You need to catch them long before they develop their mouths (they don't have a mouth yet when they hatch - they develop one as they use up the egg sac they carry on their tummies.) You can hold bbs in fridge for a couple of days - the low temp slows their development.
Tomoko
I have a instant hot water maker at my sink. It dispenses 190 degree F water. Boiling water will deforms your bottle but not 190 degree water. I normally sterilize three sets of bottles with this hot water. I don't do more because after awhile the bottles get contaminated with airborne bacteria such as cyano and others. No soap or detergent in the bottles. I don't know if detergent residue will kill rotifers, but it sure did my son's triops to my dismay and to his horror (he was very young at the time.)
I don't think mandarin goes for rotifers. They are better off with benthic type like herpacticoid copepods.
Baby clowns eat bbs and rotifers. A lot of breeders keep their clownfish larvae in green water and rotifer mixture initially. Green water will help keep the nitrate and phosphate level down for the lavae. They are started on bbs after a few days to a week from hatching.
It takes about 5 to 6 days for phytoplankton to get concentrated enough from splitting. If you start from the disc, it takes about two weeks till you can start splitting regularly. Rotifers can double their density in less than 24 hours. You need to figure out how fast your rotifers and other bugs clear phyto in the culture water and figure out how much and how often to feed. Live phyto will stay in the water column until they are consumed. It all depends on the density of the bugs and the size of the containers.
My rotifers in 1 to 2 gallon jugs clears a 1/4 cup "dark green" phyto in two days. I keep their container green so they won't run out of phyto. When they do, the density will drop.
bbs hatches in about 18 to 20 hours right now at 78 degree water. In winter they are definitely slower. You need to harvest them when they just hatched. Otherwise their nutritional values (from the egg sac) will drop rapidly. You need to catch them long before they develop their mouths (they don't have a mouth yet when they hatch - they develop one as they use up the egg sac they carry on their tummies.) You can hold bbs in fridge for a couple of days - the low temp slows their development.
Tomoko
NicoleC
New member
I didn't see Tomoko say this, but I will: Keep the phyto ABOVE any other cultures, to help prevent contamination. In another room is safer!
You may wish to use an Instant Algae-like product instead of live phyto for rotifers. There are complications with it, but none as bad as dealing with losing you phyto cultures.
With a medical pump, a lot of time and gadgets, you CAN set up a system where the top-off feeds the phyto, the phyto phyto feeds the rotifers, the rotifers feed whatever... etc. It is not a tweak-free system, but I managed it once while on vacation.
You may wish to use an Instant Algae-like product instead of live phyto for rotifers. There are complications with it, but none as bad as dealing with losing you phyto cultures.
With a medical pump, a lot of time and gadgets, you CAN set up a system where the top-off feeds the phyto, the phyto phyto feeds the rotifers, the rotifers feed whatever... etc. It is not a tweak-free system, but I managed it once while on vacation.
Tomoko Schum
New member
Yes, I have my phyto on the shelf above my rotifers. I used to have them on the same shelf on the opposite ends. The positive pressure on the phyto bottles usually keeps the bugs and dust out, but you are really safer to keep rotifers well away from phyto.
Among all phytoplanton, Tetraselmis is the rascal that gets into everything. You really need to be meticulous about this one if you want to keep your phyto pure. However, cross contaminating phyto does not totally get one wiped out. They usually find the balance somewhere.
Do keep a back up culture or two in case of a crash. I never crashed entire culture of phyto before. I have once lost a couple of bottles randomly to what appeared to be bacterial contamination. Last month I almost lost a bottle of nanochloropsys to double dosing fertilizer accidently. I suppose they got shocked, but they came back up in a few days.
I prefer live phyto because you can never overfeed with it. The most common mistake a beginner makes is overfeeding with non-live algae product. When in doubt, underfeed it. Underfeeding cannot kill the bugs.
Tomoko
Among all phytoplanton, Tetraselmis is the rascal that gets into everything. You really need to be meticulous about this one if you want to keep your phyto pure. However, cross contaminating phyto does not totally get one wiped out. They usually find the balance somewhere.
Do keep a back up culture or two in case of a crash. I never crashed entire culture of phyto before. I have once lost a couple of bottles randomly to what appeared to be bacterial contamination. Last month I almost lost a bottle of nanochloropsys to double dosing fertilizer accidently. I suppose they got shocked, but they came back up in a few days.
I prefer live phyto because you can never overfeed with it. The most common mistake a beginner makes is overfeeding with non-live algae product. When in doubt, underfeed it. Underfeeding cannot kill the bugs.
Tomoko
Tomoko Schum
New member
I forgot to answer Philip's question on Tiggerpods.
My method is pretty much the same as what's written here:
http://www.reefnutrition.com/tiggerpods/more_about_tp.htm
I use my cultured phyto instead of Phyto-Feast. I have raised them with Phyto-Feast before.
I got my tiggerpods contaminated with rotifers recently. The production seemed to have dropped, but it came back up after while. It's kinda stagnant again, though. I cannot say it's because of the competitoin for food with rotifers since my back up culture (control) never caught up to the speed of the main before contamination. Obviously I have not figured this thing out yet. I need to restart it from a pure culture since my back up now has rotifers in it. I was scratching my head about how this happened since I used different set of tools for rotifers. Then I found the aeration on rotifer tank has increased for some reason. It seems as thought it simply took the spray (due to aeration) for the bugs to jump into another container
Oh, I also forgot to mention that the bottle of plain salt water next to my phyto culture is for washing bugs from the sieve into the container.
Tomoko
My method is pretty much the same as what's written here:
http://www.reefnutrition.com/tiggerpods/more_about_tp.htm
I use my cultured phyto instead of Phyto-Feast. I have raised them with Phyto-Feast before.
I got my tiggerpods contaminated with rotifers recently. The production seemed to have dropped, but it came back up after while. It's kinda stagnant again, though. I cannot say it's because of the competitoin for food with rotifers since my back up culture (control) never caught up to the speed of the main before contamination. Obviously I have not figured this thing out yet. I need to restart it from a pure culture since my back up now has rotifers in it. I was scratching my head about how this happened since I used different set of tools for rotifers. Then I found the aeration on rotifer tank has increased for some reason. It seems as thought it simply took the spray (due to aeration) for the bugs to jump into another container
Oh, I also forgot to mention that the bottle of plain salt water next to my phyto culture is for washing bugs from the sieve into the container.
Tomoko
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timrandlerv10
New member
...ok, if i am going to start with just ONE, what do i try first?
phyto?
phyto?
Tomoko Schum
New member
It depends on your goal.
I think Nanochloropsys is the easiest phyto to keep.
Rotifers grow well on it. Despite what tiggerpod suppliers such as Reed Mariculture and Ocean Nutrition claims, tiggerpods grow well on Nano, too. I don't know if Isochrysis really improves their growth rate. So far I have not really seen much difference.
If you want to culture phyto to increase pods population in your tank so you can keep a mandarin, I recommend that you add enough live rocks to your tank and add some pods to ensure a healthy population of pods. You can use Nano or a combination of Nano and Iso for this.
Copepods are not as fecund as rotifers. Pods do not double in number in 24 hours. You need a large enough number of copepods in order to feed a mandarin every day from a culture.
If you want to raise clownfish babies, the first thing I recommend is to get "Clownfishes" by Dr. Joyce Wilkerson. Raising baby fish is a lot of fun, but it sure is "A LOT OF WORK". It does not hurt to be very well prepared first. Then, get nanochloropsis, tetraselmis and rotifers a few weeks before you steal eggs from your fish. You need to give yourself some time to practice before you get ready to raise your clownfish babies. Just about everybody I shared my phyto and rotifers with (except for a couple of individuals) ended up crashing the culture a few times before they got the hang of it.
Tomoko
I think Nanochloropsys is the easiest phyto to keep.
Rotifers grow well on it. Despite what tiggerpod suppliers such as Reed Mariculture and Ocean Nutrition claims, tiggerpods grow well on Nano, too. I don't know if Isochrysis really improves their growth rate. So far I have not really seen much difference.
If you want to culture phyto to increase pods population in your tank so you can keep a mandarin, I recommend that you add enough live rocks to your tank and add some pods to ensure a healthy population of pods. You can use Nano or a combination of Nano and Iso for this.
Copepods are not as fecund as rotifers. Pods do not double in number in 24 hours. You need a large enough number of copepods in order to feed a mandarin every day from a culture.
If you want to raise clownfish babies, the first thing I recommend is to get "Clownfishes" by Dr. Joyce Wilkerson. Raising baby fish is a lot of fun, but it sure is "A LOT OF WORK". It does not hurt to be very well prepared first. Then, get nanochloropsis, tetraselmis and rotifers a few weeks before you steal eggs from your fish. You need to give yourself some time to practice before you get ready to raise your clownfish babies. Just about everybody I shared my phyto and rotifers with (except for a couple of individuals) ended up crashing the culture a few times before they got the hang of it.
Tomoko
I am looking to stock my new seahorse tank with pods and macroalgae. I think many people grow both of those in their sump. Does anyone have some I can buy at the meeting on the 29th? I am particularly interested in a supply of pods, grape calerpa and that other plant that is red in color. I have read that seahorses love to hold on to that stuff. I will bring CASH if anyone is interested. I am still assuming that both clubs are meeting together in Birmingham.
timrandlerv10
New member
what do you do with your triggerpods? just dump-feed into your tanks? who eats them? would they be of sufficient value for mandarins?
my intent is to grow phyto, get good at it, and dump my practice into my tank (or give away).
start growing pods (using phyto as food for pods). dump my practice into my tank.
improve my tank environment--more small rocks/rubble for pod growth areas--i will be putting my new pods and target feed phyto there.
as that area increases in pod life, and i get better at growing pods, thats when i'll introduce my mandarin, while continuing to supplement the pod's food source with more phyto, and continuing to supplement the mandarin's food with non-display tank pods.
does this sound like it will work? will the other inhabitants eat all the pods? what else can i do to increase pod growth in the display and fuge? (besides feeding phyto and more rubble)
my intent is to grow phyto, get good at it, and dump my practice into my tank (or give away).
start growing pods (using phyto as food for pods). dump my practice into my tank.
improve my tank environment--more small rocks/rubble for pod growth areas--i will be putting my new pods and target feed phyto there.
as that area increases in pod life, and i get better at growing pods, thats when i'll introduce my mandarin, while continuing to supplement the pod's food source with more phyto, and continuing to supplement the mandarin's food with non-display tank pods.
does this sound like it will work? will the other inhabitants eat all the pods? what else can i do to increase pod growth in the display and fuge? (besides feeding phyto and more rubble)
