Who's dosing vodka? And why?
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herring_fish
Crazy Designer
Water Clarity
Water Clarity
I really do appreciate your help. I may have gotten lucky with just the right combination but it did work for me so I will run re-run the experience. I’m not trying to sell scrubbers but it worked then. Why shouldn’t I stick with what works for me. I feel that not running mechanical filters helped me grow filter feeders better and that was what I was after.
I haven’t put my scrubber on timing that is opposed to the tank lighting yet so the pH will fluctuate more than I would like but it always runs low. I hope that it will stabilize sooner or later. I will raise the salinity to 1.026 thanks.
The one thing that I don’t get, is why do I need to change the water often if nutrients stay low?
Water Clarity
I really do appreciate your help. I may have gotten lucky with just the right combination but it did work for me so I will run re-run the experience. I’m not trying to sell scrubbers but it worked then. Why shouldn’t I stick with what works for me. I feel that not running mechanical filters helped me grow filter feeders better and that was what I was after.
I haven’t put my scrubber on timing that is opposed to the tank lighting yet so the pH will fluctuate more than I would like but it always runs low. I hope that it will stabilize sooner or later. I will raise the salinity to 1.026 thanks.
The one thing that I don’t get, is why do I need to change the water often if nutrients stay low?
melev
Well-known member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15061913#post15061913 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dnsfpl
10ml a day for a 90g tank
is it too much?
have gradually increase the dosage over the months but no sign of no3 dropping
Just took a look at your tank and it is very pretty. Here's the image for everyone else to see. When did you take it? Is the tank still the same now?
How do you add the 10ml? Do you pour it in, or drip it in? With my 280g reef, I was up to 15ml per day when NO3 dropped. I have a DSB and refugium, which may be part of the reason it took that much to see results.
What is the current NO3 level? How old is your test kit? Has anyone verified your measurement yet? Perhaps the kit is old or faulty.
melev
Well-known member
Re: Water Clarity
Re: Water Clarity
The typical answer is "it will replace stuff we don't even test for." But in the case of a tank that is skimmer-less, water changes remove waste that the corals and fish exude out daily. Take two white buckets, and fill one with newly mixed saltwater and take an equal amount of tank water. See if it looks the same. If it is discolored, that's a visual indication of what you are removing, at least in part.
I'm not saying not to use an ATS if you like it. They have been popular in the past, and some people use them today. However, if your tank really is low in nutrients, then the algae has very little to grow from.
And a healthy system shouldn't need a lot of additives to keep it running, in my experience. Perhaps your system isn't a good candidate for vodka dosing.
Re: Water Clarity
The typical answer is "it will replace stuff we don't even test for." But in the case of a tank that is skimmer-less, water changes remove waste that the corals and fish exude out daily. Take two white buckets, and fill one with newly mixed saltwater and take an equal amount of tank water. See if it looks the same. If it is discolored, that's a visual indication of what you are removing, at least in part.
I'm not saying not to use an ATS if you like it. They have been popular in the past, and some people use them today. However, if your tank really is low in nutrients, then the algae has very little to grow from.
And a healthy system shouldn't need a lot of additives to keep it running, in my experience. Perhaps your system isn't a good candidate for vodka dosing.
dnsfpl
Active member
thanks, the photo was taken a few weeks ago, the tank looks pretty much the same now
right now, i am dosing 3.25ml in the morning, another 3.25ml at night
i inject all at 1 go to my sump tank using a syringe
i do not have a refugium or DSB in my sump
before dosing vodka, it was around 40ppm
after dosing for a few months, it drop slightly, esp after 25% water change(20ppm)
tested again today, after a week of water change, it bounces back to 40ppm
i have 2 testkit, API and salifert, both purchase recently
both results where similiar
i asked 10ml because based on current situation, i believe there wouldn't be any progression til the 10ml
i just want to be sure i am doing right thing
cheers
herring_fish
Crazy Designer
Water Clarity
Water Clarity
You are right, at least for now. When I get some more fish, there will be more waste in the tank to process and therefore algae output will go up and then I will retry start a schedule of vodka for the bacteria …for the filter feeders.
Water Clarity
You are right, at least for now. When I get some more fish, there will be more waste in the tank to process and therefore algae output will go up and then I will retry start a schedule of vodka for the bacteria …for the filter feeders.
melev
Well-known member
Do you have anything in the tank that adds to nitrate daily? Bioballs, biowheels, bio-bale, bio-anything? Sponges, pads, floss, etc?
Have you tested your source water and your top off water for nitrate yet? It's best to make sure the only place they are is in your tank, and not from stuff being added daily.
Water changes will definitely drop them, and your tank isn't so big that you couldn't get them down with only water changes. Here's one method:
Change 50% of the water in your tank, and you will cut the nitrate in half. Two days later, change 50% again, and cut them in half again. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
In 10 days, you could drop the nitrates from 40 to 20, to 10, to 5, to 2.5ppm.
You may see them rise up again, but once the numbers are lower, the system is better able to keep them down. However, without a DSB in the tank or a refugium below, it comes down to how well your skimmer works, how much you feed the tank daily, and how well your live rock can denitrify the water. Thus the need for water changes. Or for dosing Vodka.
Just take your time with the dosing. It took my system 7 months to finally reach the perfect level to drop NO3, but I didn't lose any livestock due to it nor did anything scary or ugly happen.
dnsfpl
Active member
no much changes since setup, other than corals and livestock<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15062104#post15062104 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Do you have anything in the tank that adds to nitrate daily? Bioballs, biowheels, bio-bale, bio-anything? Sponges, pads, floss, etc?
Have you tested your source water and your top off water for nitrate yet? It's best to make sure the only place they are is in your tank, and not from stuff being added daily.
Water changes will definitely drop them, and your tank isn't so big that you couldn't get them down with only water changes. Here's one method:
Change 50% of the water in your tank, and you will cut the nitrate in half. Two days later, change 50% again, and cut them in half again. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
In 10 days, you could drop the nitrates from 40 to 20, to 10, to 5, to 2.5ppm.
You may see them rise up again, but once the numbers are lower, the system is better able to keep them down. However, without a DSB in the tank or a refugium below, it comes down to how well your skimmer works, how much you feed the tank daily, and how well your live rock can denitrify the water. Thus the need for water changes. Or for dosing Vodka.
Just take your time with the dosing. It took my system 7 months to finally reach the perfect level to drop NO3, but I didn't lose any livestock due to it nor did anything scary or ugly happen.
beside live rocks and a few mangroves, there is nothing else in my sump
i use tap water for water change and top up, nitrates 5-10ppm
i am using reef octopus DNW 200 skimmer for my tank
i do 5 light feeding a day, morning pellets(0730), noon pellets(1430), night(2000) 1 cube of mysis soak in garlic
in between(1200, 1700), the timer will drop a bit, really a bit of pellets as snacks
i guess i have to be more patient
thanks
melev
Well-known member
You need to stop using tap water that contains nitrate, as that is one source. And you are feeding much too much to your tank.
I only recently (in the last month) feed my reef three times a day, and I only do that now that my PO4 and NO3 are down due to vodka dosing. Before that, I was feeding once a day (every night), plus the occasional half sheet of nori for my tangs.
So, you need better quality water for top offs and water changes, and feed less. NO3 will drop once you begin to do that. But it will take time.
I only recently (in the last month) feed my reef three times a day, and I only do that now that my PO4 and NO3 are down due to vodka dosing. Before that, I was feeding once a day (every night), plus the occasional half sheet of nori for my tangs.
So, you need better quality water for top offs and water changes, and feed less. NO3 will drop once you begin to do that. But it will take time.
herring_fish
Crazy Designer
Water Clarity
Water Clarity
Ok I changed out about 50 Gallons of water from my 130 plus 55 and I raised the salinity to 1.026. Of course the water is clear as a bell. I’ll report whether the water clouds back up after I feed. Thanks for the tips.
Water Clarity
Ok I changed out about 50 Gallons of water from my 130 plus 55 and I raised the salinity to 1.026. Of course the water is clear as a bell. I’ll report whether the water clouds back up after I feed. Thanks for the tips.
Sisterlimonpot
Premium Member
Sounds like it's working. Keep us posted
started with a dosage of 4 ml
1st week >> + .5ml
2nd week >> + .5ml
3rd week >> + 1ml
4th week >> + 1ml
5th week >> + 1ml
6th week >> + 1ml
7th week >> + 1ml
8th, 9th, current >> +1ml per 3 days
right now... its still at a 100 in nitrates
phosphates are at 5, u read it right, 5 and not 0.5
no signs of dropping...
test kits are ok and new... tested ro/di got 0's
1st week >> + .5ml
2nd week >> + .5ml
3rd week >> + 1ml
4th week >> + 1ml
5th week >> + 1ml
6th week >> + 1ml
7th week >> + 1ml
8th, 9th, current >> +1ml per 3 days
right now... its still at a 100 in nitrates
phosphates are at 5, u read it right, 5 and not 0.5
no signs of dropping...
test kits are ok and new... tested ro/di got 0's
Aqua Keepers
New member
Holy crap!!!!!!!!!!
Is there anything still alive in this tank? You need to figure out why they're so high.
Is there anything still alive in this tank? You need to figure out why they're so high.
Elan L.
New member
:eek2: How can you even get them that high?? I cant even get them to 1ppm (i had to raise it for something, but unsuccessful)!!
I think you need to do more than just vodka. Try this:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-01/diy/index.php
I think you need to do more than just vodka. Try this:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-01/diy/index.php
melev
Well-known member
For some reason, you've opted to use your own dosing schedule instead of following the article. Is this because you aren't using 80 proof vodka perhaps?
I'd have to imagine you, or your family, are heavily overfeeding this tank as if it were a Koi pond or freshwater tank. Or you have a nitrate factory built in.
However, for removing Phosphate, I'd suggest you use a product that will remove it quickly. Back in 2005, my tank was measuring 3.0 ppm, and I used a number of products to fight that high number. I read in one of Randy's articles that if your tank reaches 2.0 ppm, the rock and substrate becomes super saturated and even with PO4-removers, it will continue to leach out of the rock and sand for a long time. He was right. It took me about six months to drop the number to 0ppm. The product that I liked was Caribsea's Phosbuster Pro. At that time, there was a problem with Yellow Tangs dying from the product, but I never had any surprises. If you choose to use it, be sure to buffer up your alkalinity to about 10 dKH 20 minutes before dosing Phosbuster Pro.
That product is a flocculant, in that it will turn the phosphate to a solid so it can be skimmed out of the tank, or captured in a very fine filter SOCK (not mesh bag). You'd need a 5 micron sock, or socks, because it will clog up quickly and would need to be swapped out.
Another product that works is Blue Life's Phosphate Control. You drip it into the tank, and it does the exact same thing. Skimmer or filter sock removes the solids overnight.
Because you have such elevated levels, the corals you have are tolerating it. I wouldn't dose to eliminate the PO4, but rather to reduce it gradually. Such as dosing every week, to bring it down .5 to 1ppm. When I treated my tank, I knew I was going to lose corals anyway, so I was pretty aggressive in dosing. My hope was that the products wouldn't kill my livestock, and I was correct. You won't be able to resolve those high numbers quickly, but you can eat away at it over a couple of months and hopefully see the numbers drop. Remember, they will bounce back up as the phosphate leaches out of the rockwork and sand, but if you stay at it, you'll get rid of them.
For nitrate reduction, the best way to see a quick drop is to do a 50% water change. Nitrate is in the water, not the reef. If you do that big water change, the nitrate level should cut in half. Do it again one or two days later, and you'll cut it in half again. If the tank is currently 100 ppm, in two water changes you could have it down to 25 ppm theoretically. With the numbers lower, the vodka may have an effect. Another product on the market is AZNO3, which worked on my tank. It took me two months, but I brought NO3 from 65 ppm to 0. When I stopped using the product, the number rose back up to 35 ppm. That is when I started dosing Vodka, and after seven long months, nitrates dropped and within a few more weeks, hit 0.
You need to change your habits or how your system is set up if you want to get this in check.
