Who's dosing vodka? And why?
- Thread starter spleify
- Start date
murraycamp
Member
I guess I never directly answered the second part of the OP:
I am dosing carbon because . . .
all the cool kids are doing it!
No wait, that's something else.
I dose carbon because proactive management of heterotrophic bacteria strains allows me to "feed" my corals and fish more without compromising water parameters, so as to maximize growth (objective goal) and color (subjective goal). Stated differently, we all feed our fish, some of us feed our corals, why don't we feed the most important inhabitants of our reef systems - bacteria?
I am dosing carbon because . . .
all the cool kids are doing it!
No wait, that's something else.
I dose carbon because proactive management of heterotrophic bacteria strains allows me to "feed" my corals and fish more without compromising water parameters, so as to maximize growth (objective goal) and color (subjective goal). Stated differently, we all feed our fish, some of us feed our corals, why don't we feed the most important inhabitants of our reef systems - bacteria?
miwoodar
Likey the bikey
I haven't read this whole thread yet but I skimmed and noticed Murray's post above. I'm kind of from the same philosophy. I never had NO3 or PO4 problems but I started dosing with the intentions of being able to feed the crap out of my tank and not have NO3 or PO4 climb. I witnessed it. Also, my growth shot through the roof and my colors improved.
Now, to be fair, I never tried pounding my tank with food before dosing VSV. I messed up by changing two variables at once (started feeding a LOT more and started VSV at the same time). Who knows what would have happened to my NO3 and PO4 if I would have just started feeding more. This is one of the reasons I haven't started VSV on my new tank. I'm trying to determine if I can actually see N&P rise/fall with my feeding regiment. After that I'll decide where to keep it then start the VSV again.
Now, to be fair, I never tried pounding my tank with food before dosing VSV. I messed up by changing two variables at once (started feeding a LOT more and started VSV at the same time). Who knows what would have happened to my NO3 and PO4 if I would have just started feeding more. This is one of the reasons I haven't started VSV on my new tank. I'm trying to determine if I can actually see N&P rise/fall with my feeding regiment. After that I'll decide where to keep it then start the VSV again.
Lofty
New member
Off topic and call me a photo newb, but what is a macro lens?
I have wanted a DSLR for a while and I love my Panasonic Lumix, which is just a step below a DSLR.
I want to get the new Panasonic Lumix G and I wonder if all camera lenses are interchangable? I've never had one in which you can remove the lense.
I love photography especially of my reef and would love to get some good shots that I cant get out of my slower fixed lense Lumix.
I have wanted a DSLR for a while and I love my Panasonic Lumix, which is just a step below a DSLR.
I want to get the new Panasonic Lumix G and I wonder if all camera lenses are interchangable? I've never had one in which you can remove the lense.
I love photography especially of my reef and would love to get some good shots that I cant get out of my slower fixed lense Lumix.
Lofty
New member
Off topic and call me a photo newb, but what is a macro lens?
I have wanted a DSLR for a while and I love my Panasonic Lumix, which is just a step below a DSLR.
I want to get the new Panasonic Lumix G and I wonder if all camera lenses are interchangable? I've never had one in which you can remove the lense.
I love photography especially of my reef and would love to get some good shots that I cant get out of my slower fixed lense Lumix.
I have wanted a DSLR for a while and I love my Panasonic Lumix, which is just a step below a DSLR.
I want to get the new Panasonic Lumix G and I wonder if all camera lenses are interchangable? I've never had one in which you can remove the lense.
I love photography especially of my reef and would love to get some good shots that I cant get out of my slower fixed lense Lumix.
PRDubois
New member
By the way there is a Photo section that can give you more detailed answers.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=118
Alot of high power zoom lenses and some plain digital cameras will have a "Macro" setting.
Macro is for taking really close shots. Cameras do not like to focus so close, so the Macro setting lets you take CLOSEUP pictures of things like Butterflys, Bugs, FISH, CORALS, etc...
I have also been told that putting the lens right nevt to the glass helps. Lets the camers focus on what is behind the glass and not the glass itself.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=118
Alot of high power zoom lenses and some plain digital cameras will have a "Macro" setting.
Macro is for taking really close shots. Cameras do not like to focus so close, so the Macro setting lets you take CLOSEUP pictures of things like Butterflys, Bugs, FISH, CORALS, etc...
I have also been told that putting the lens right nevt to the glass helps. Lets the camers focus on what is behind the glass and not the glass itself.
Lofty
New member
I just talked to a guy at an LCS (Local Camera Shop) and for my applications and since I am a newb, he recommended the Canon Rebel XS 10mp. and a 50-75mm or 100-150mm... the also have 3 free classes with a camera purchase. I will lurk around the photo formum some and see what else I can find out... Thanks and sorry for hijacking 
melev
Well-known member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14543910#post14543910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lofty
I just talked to a guy at an LCS (Local Camera Shop) and for my applications and since I am a newb, he recommended the Canon Rebel XS 10mp. and a 50-75mm or 100-150mm... the also have 3 free classes with a camera purchase. I will lurk around the photo formum some and see what else I can find out... Thanks and sorry for hijacking
There are some good articles in Reefkeeping Magazine about Photography. Lots of these are Reefslides, but look for actual articles like "Help! I Need to Buy a Digital Camera!"
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/subject/photography.php
For Macro, you are going to want a lens that is f/2.8 and ranges somewhere around 90mm to 110mm.
Now, back to topic:
murraycamp
Member
+1 to Melev (hey Marc!)
I know squat about photography, but I understand a macro lens to be a special camera lens specifically designed to take close-ups of Ricordea.
:fun4:
I know squat about photography, but I understand a macro lens to be a special camera lens specifically designed to take close-ups of Ricordea.
:fun4:
murraycamp
Member
Sounds good Mike, but you might consider a very low range dose starting out that can be increased if the need arises. My experience has been that it takes longer to safely ramp up VSV dosages to effective levels initially, so this might be a way to allow you to fine-tune your dosages in the future. It also may allow the bacterial strain diversity arising (presumptively) from the mixed carbon source to get established initially and be available for subsequent enhancement if your nutrients start rising after you increase feeding.
But what the heck do I know, I forgot to put live rock in my last tank.
spleify
Premium Member
I think from what Murray has said and knowing Mike I think the both of you are from the same school. I think this fine line we walk is exciting and creative. I applaud the folks that are not satisfied with "status quo".
Mike you are always fair, and keep things real. Would you agree thats its most likely safe to say, that the amount you were feeding, would have most certainly drove your NO3 and PO4 up, had you NOT been dosing VSV?
This is what we have all been looking for, a way to feed our tank and make things happy and not drive up undesirables.
Sisterlimonpot
Premium Member
Started vodka dosing about 2 months ago N03 was at 30 and P04 was at .25, After about 4 weeks of dosing (increasing .5 every week) I started to see a decrease in N03 so I maintained the dosing. A week later P04 is undetectable (API) and holding. Right now my N03 is between 5 and 10 (again API, it's hard to distinguish between 5 and 10).
I like to also add that when I started the process I adjusted the skimmer to skim a little bit wetter.
I am so amazed with this that I can’t believe it has worked. Who’d a thought that a simple dosing everyday would fix what I have been battling for years.
I like to also add that when I started the process I adjusted the skimmer to skim a little bit wetter.
I am so amazed with this that I can’t believe it has worked. Who’d a thought that a simple dosing everyday would fix what I have been battling for years.
murraycamp
Member
Thanks man, I appreciate it.
As I stated, I started another tank using only ceramic rock and the Zeovit system (planned as an acro/monti tank) but have had significant problems establishing the biofilm dynamics. It is a 40 gallon (net water volume) system that uses Aquaroche ceramic sculpted rock in the display plus an additional 4 Liters of media (Seachem Matrix) in the sump. There is no live rock in the system. I use carbon passively (a bag in the sump). The system is about 14 weeks old.
The confusing part of all this is that at the same time I started the second ceramic-rock-only system (Caribbean biotope) , using Prodibio and Vodka-Sugar-Vinegar as the carbon source (200ml:1 tsp:50ml), and that system has been rock solid with good coral growth (NO3 .025, PO4 .01). It actually uses less cermaic rock than the zeovit tank.
I cycled the tank, then started Zeovit per the Zeovit guide (non-stocked), and at about week 5 added one small wrasse and a limited number of corals (at this point NH4 = 0, NO2=0, NO3 < 2). One week later, I had a second nitrogen cycle when I changed the zeoliths per the Zeovit guide, with progressive spikes in NH4, NO2 and NO3, indicating initial instability in the bacterial populations.
After the second cycle, my NO3 remained at a level of about 10 ppm, and PO4 at about .09. I have been dosing very conservatively per the Zeovit guidelines, at .10 ml of Zeostart start/day (total) and one drop of Zeobak and Zeofood7 2x weekly. My NO3 finally and gradually dropped to 3 ppm and PO4 to .05, but it has remained there for the last 30-40 days and will not drop any lower. Also, during the last 6 -8 weeks I have experienced periodic brown bacterial buildup on my rock that indicates an excess carbon dosage, so I have stopped dosing Zeofood and Zeostart (per Zeovit guidelines) for five day periods, only to have it come back after I resume dosing. No matter what I do, I cannot lower my nutrients below NO3 =3 and PO4= .05.
I have also lost two Acropora "test" frags associated with the carbon overdosing events, so raising my Zeostart (carbon source) and Zeofood (carbon source/amino acids) dosing does not seem possible. As I stated above, every time I resume dosing of these two products the brown bacterial growth reappears, and I lose corals.
My levels, other than NO3 and PO4 as noted above, have been stable (Salinity 1.026, temp 78-80, Mag 1300, K 390, Alk 130 ppm and Ca 420).
I am about to conclude that either: (1) the Zeovit system will not work in a ceramic-rock-only system absent some quantity of live rock in order to provide bacterial strains not present in the Zeovit system, or (2) the Aquaroche material alone, for whatever reason, is unable to adequately sustain the bacteria populations necessary for a stable system. If that is the case, I would have to abandon the Aquaroche altogether as unusable in this type of system, as the introduction of live rock will be counter to why I chose to experiment with this type of system in the first place (prevention of pest organism introduction, esp. bryopsis, and to satisfy my generally experimental nature). As noted above, I appear to have more than adequate colonization area for the system, as have an additional 4 Liters of Matrix in the sump.
I sent this information to Aquaroche (via the vendor) and they said, in a nutshell: (1) you need "some" live rock for bacterial diversity, and (2) I need more ceramic rock than I can fit in my display at this point.
Again, the confusing part is that at the same time I started this tank, I started an all ceramic rock (with actually less ceramic rock) tank using Prodibio/VSV and have had success. It may very well be that adequate strain diversity was introduced in that tank through stocking but not in the zeo tank (for whatever reason), or zeo is designed to utilize, compliment and strengthen the dynamics of extant bacterial strains in the live rock, where as Prodibio may take another approach.
In any event, I think I have concluded that my no-live-rock zeo tank experiment is over. I have one clam, two frags and one fish in the system that can easily be removed and re-housed. I am thinking of pulling out most the Matrix and all the aquaroche, putting in well-cured LR per zeo guidelines, and starting over. I would expect that the cycle time on a re-start would be accelerated due to the fact that there is at least some bacterial establishment, if not complete or robust.
What I do not want to have happen is that I am still trying to get bacterial dynamics established three months from now, when I could have taken a different path.
Stated differently, I want to start growing corals now, not pushing the envelope of proactive biofilm management methodology.
Whew.
miwoodar
Likey the bikey
Thanks Leif. Right, I would agree. I upped my feeding from a few cubes per week to a few cubes per day on a 65 (medium cubes, not the small ones). Some days, if I had time, I would dump in five cubes over the course of an evening. I was literally feeding more than my fish could eat. I'm pretty sure I would have seen a *huge* spike in N&P but since I started VSV at the same time, I can't claim anything as fact. My thought process as I started was, 'figure out how many drops of VSV equal one cube of food'. It wasn't until later that I realized it might have been better to figure out my tank's response to an increase of food then determine the response to the VSV. Maybe the two go hand-in-hand though and have a synergy (this has been supposed by some big brain folks I tend to trust).
murraycamp
Member
Right on.
