brad65ford
New member
Can we see a pic of your refug? Usually if thriving will offset the bad algae/P04 issues hurting your SPS's.
Why are my corals dying?
- Thread starter drukkosz
- Start date
naterealbig
Premium Member
+1 My pH dips to 7.65 at night with more than 2 people in my apartment, and SPS are doing just fine; colors and growth. pH is doubtably the culprit.
Like others said, you're swinging at a pinata blindfolded without even a set of quality test kits and results...especially phosphate and nitrate.
Triple check your refractometer - I would even go as far as to buy a second calibration fluid. I can't tell you how many times I had problems with my fish or coral, and I sat around like a dummy when my salt level was the problem. Check a couple of the more recent threads about SPS issues as well here on the forums; atleast two were running their s.g. @ 1.022 or less.
Issues with Alkalinity will also cause STN - even if your level is OK when you tested, it doesn't mean that it is steady enough to keep the corals happy. If it has dipped below eight any time within the last couple of months, it can cause serious issues....which will take several weeks to get better.
I wouldn't be too worried about Calcium and Magnesium at this point, your levels aren't doing anything detrimental. And again, the pH is fine.
Something else that you want to check for, is stray current or voltage in the tank. These will do serious damage to corals, inverts, and fish.
Also, I'd probably do a water change, and blow the detritus out of the rocks and sand when you do - this will help your nitrate and phosphate levels no matter what they are. And the tank looks like it could use a little spiffing up.
9 times out of 10, the problems are the basic stuff, which is so easy to take for granted. Additionally, you may want to take the carbon and phosphate remover off-line temporarily, so you can at least rule these out as a possibility.
naterealbig
Premium Member
I skipped the last few posts before I put in my 2 cents - Some good recommendations on the second page for sure. And +1 about the comment referencing water movement.
- Some good recommendations on the second page for sure. And +1 about the comment referencing water movement.
naterealbig
Premium Member
This is only true if the "fuge" is kept clean. A refugium is a place where a lot of detritus can become trapped if not maintained well, and can often lead to increased nutrients. Something else many take for granted. Add more problems if there is a "DSB" that is not deep enough, set up properly, or not maintained.
drukkosz
Member
I do two 10 gallon water changes a week and like i said earlier I scrub the rock with a toothbrush before water change.
I Use quality tests (red sea and hanna phosphate).
Also I will try to take a sample of my water to LFS and see if they can double check it for me.
I don't have a par meter and unfortunately don't know anybody who has one.
I did take carbon and phosphate remover off-line last night. Any ideas how long should I keep it that way??
I am not home so cant show you my fuge
Thank you all for your time and help
I Use quality tests (red sea and hanna phosphate).
Also I will try to take a sample of my water to LFS and see if they can double check it for me.
I don't have a par meter and unfortunately don't know anybody who has one.
I did take carbon and phosphate remover off-line last night. Any ideas how long should I keep it that way??
I am not home so cant show you my fuge
Thank you all for your time and help
brad65ford
New member
naterealbig
Premium Member
Agreed, this is why I wanted to see it
True, true. I commented on it, because I have made the same mistake myself. If it's dumb, trust and believe, I've done it.
naterealbig
Premium Member
I do two 10 gallon water changes a week and like i said earlier I scrub the rock with a toothbrush before water change.
I Use quality tests (red sea and hanna phosphate).
Also I will try to take a sample of my water to LFS and see if they can double check it for me.
I don't have a par meter and unfortunately don't know anybody who has one.
I did take carbon and phosphate remover off-line last night. Any ideas how long should I keep it that way??
I am not home so cant show you my fuge
Thank you all for your time and help
Yeah, I missed a couple posts before I left mine. I wonder if using a small power head blown into the crevices and between the rocks would be more effective than a tooth brush, as far as getting deep down goes. A power head is what I use to loosen food and detritus from my rocks before a water change. I run my tank bare bottom with 2400gph return pump on my 150, and it still always amazes me to see how much junk accumulates. I have found that there is a direct correlation between the amount of stuff I let build up in my rocks, my nitrates, phosphate, and coral colors.
Also, I wonder (although I doubt if it has anything to do with the condition of the corals) if doing a single 20 gallon water change weekly would be more beneficial than 2 ten gallon water changes.
I'd leave the carbon and the phosphate off for about two weeks, which should be long enough to see if the corals are making any improvement. Maybe add 10 gallons to the water change to make up for them being gone.
I doubt you need the par meter, but the nuances of LED's have seemed to cause some recent issues with coral coloration. I have not seen any threads on LED actually killing the corals, which is undoubtably what is happening here. I don't think you said you are running halides, but I have had them kill corals before. Cheap bulbs from ebay are generally a no-no, as are any halide bulb from Coralife.
brad65ford
New member
Not to jump in on the thread for my own questioning but it does bring up a great point. I run a BB refug with LR, Cheato, and Grape caulerpa coming from my BB main display. I haven't siphoned the bottom in months and my SPS are doing better and better the longer I don't touch it. I'm starting to believe to many or to large of water changes at some level are not good with a BB tank since there is no sand (larger source of bacteria). I've wanted to run a DSP/mud refug on a SPS tank but I'm afraid of the DSB going bad after at said period of time.
drukkosz
Member
Right now I have a small fuge with about 3 in sand live rock, cheato and 5 mangroves.
I have 2 tunze 6095 on the sides and one tunze 6045 behind the rocks for better circulation.
I might try to use powerhead next time I do water change. I even cleaned overflow, if you didn't do it lately you will be shocked how much junk is sitting on the bottom.
I ordered a bigger tank 125g and my plan is to have a as big fuge as possible and move some of my rock from display to it and hopefully it will help with all those nutrients.
I just try to plan and learn from my mistakes now so it wont happen again!
I have 2 tunze 6095 on the sides and one tunze 6045 behind the rocks for better circulation.
I might try to use powerhead next time I do water change. I even cleaned overflow, if you didn't do it lately you will be shocked how much junk is sitting on the bottom.
I ordered a bigger tank 125g and my plan is to have a as big fuge as possible and move some of my rock from display to it and hopefully it will help with all those nutrients.
I just try to plan and learn from my mistakes now so it wont happen again!
MammothReefer
Active member
Wow a lot of stuff going on here.
Phytoplankton is very high in nutrients, as are most foods. The 2 main sources of nutrients in a tank are food (be it for your fish, or otherwise), and your water source. There really is no reason to add phytoplankton to an SPS tank unless you are trying to raise small clams.
If I were you I would
A) Get the test kits you need and test once a week and keep a log.
B) Not buy anymore SPS (just yet)
C) Stop Feeding! Do not add anything more to the tank then the bare minimum. You have a few small fish, don't over feed them.
C) Do weekly 25% water changes with Good clean RO/DI
D) Do not remove your Carbon and Rowa but make sure you are running enough to reduce your phosphates. If you find that it is no longer lowering your phosphates it's depleted. Replace it.
E) Stop using a tooth brush (minimize the time your hands are in your tank), and just you a power head to quickly blast off your rock before you do your water changes
F) Start using filter socks change them twice a week (or when they get clogged)
G) Go threw you whole tank and clean out ANY detritus you can find in your refugium, in your sump, everywhere get out as much as you can or try to get as much as you can in your filter socks,
H) Find ANY foam in you have in your tank (be it in your return pump), any sort of prefitler that may just be a sponge for detrius and remove/clean it
I) If you want to go the extra step, I'd start researching Vodka/Vinegar dosing or Biopellets
Once you stop seeing algae growing on your corals, then start thinking sps again. Don't be afraid to take your numbers down to 0 (nitrate and phosphate) it's a good place to start and then you know how much you can feed by watching how your numbers trend up or stay the same.
You are going to have an uphill battle. You had a lot of stuff die (so it seems) it's going to take a while for all that to leach out of the rocks, but it's not hopeless. I did the same. It took a couple months of big water changes, and dosing Vodka to get everything back on track but in the end it paid off.
As far as SPS in general though, even with dosing. You really need to be on top of stability. I test my alk every few days when I notice movement in my tank. I would picked up a hanna tester and get into the habit of testing every other day and logging your trends in alk just keep calcium balanced with it (and test it once a week). I can say any number between 7-11 and have it be fine for alk at any given time, but if it's swinging from 8-9 daily my corals won't thrive.
Phytoplankton is very high in nutrients, as are most foods. The 2 main sources of nutrients in a tank are food (be it for your fish, or otherwise), and your water source. There really is no reason to add phytoplankton to an SPS tank unless you are trying to raise small clams.
If I were you I would
A) Get the test kits you need and test once a week and keep a log.
B) Not buy anymore SPS (just yet)
C) Stop Feeding! Do not add anything more to the tank then the bare minimum. You have a few small fish, don't over feed them.
C) Do weekly 25% water changes with Good clean RO/DI
D) Do not remove your Carbon and Rowa but make sure you are running enough to reduce your phosphates. If you find that it is no longer lowering your phosphates it's depleted. Replace it.
E) Stop using a tooth brush (minimize the time your hands are in your tank), and just you a power head to quickly blast off your rock before you do your water changes
F) Start using filter socks change them twice a week (or when they get clogged)
G) Go threw you whole tank and clean out ANY detritus you can find in your refugium, in your sump, everywhere get out as much as you can or try to get as much as you can in your filter socks,
H) Find ANY foam in you have in your tank (be it in your return pump), any sort of prefitler that may just be a sponge for detrius and remove/clean it
I) If you want to go the extra step, I'd start researching Vodka/Vinegar dosing or Biopellets
Once you stop seeing algae growing on your corals, then start thinking sps again. Don't be afraid to take your numbers down to 0 (nitrate and phosphate) it's a good place to start and then you know how much you can feed by watching how your numbers trend up or stay the same.
You are going to have an uphill battle. You had a lot of stuff die (so it seems) it's going to take a while for all that to leach out of the rocks, but it's not hopeless. I did the same. It took a couple months of big water changes, and dosing Vodka to get everything back on track but in the end it paid off.
As far as SPS in general though, even with dosing. You really need to be on top of stability. I test my alk every few days when I notice movement in my tank. I would picked up a hanna tester and get into the habit of testing every other day and logging your trends in alk just keep calcium balanced with it (and test it once a week). I can say any number between 7-11 and have it be fine for alk at any given time, but if it's swinging from 8-9 daily my corals won't thrive.
naterealbig
Premium Member
If keeping the sump dirty for you is what is working, then I would hesitate to change anything at all. Once you have the basics down pat (which it seems you do) then, there is a lot more wiggle room. Bottom line is, once you get the tank where it needs to be, your corals will be better than any test kit to let you know how to fine tune things. I wouldn't mess with the DSB or mud.
naterealbig
Premium Member
Mammoth has done a good job of summing up the recommendations here, as well as removing the ones that will serve no purpose. I started to disagree with leaving the carbon and PO4 remover in the system, but typically, problems are seen regarding them, when the nutrients are too low. This does not appear to be the case here. Still, be careful not to overdo it. Too much of either can cause issues, especially if they cause a drastic change in the level of orgaincs in the aquarium over a short period of time.
