Why are my SPS so pale?

[Jkeating8]

I need some help, RC. Recently I've notice that my sour apple birdsnest was just looking blah. Kinda brown with some very slight green tips. My Green Monti is pale, and my blue Acro is just brown. I don't understand. I'm also noticing some bleaching or necrosis and polyp retraction on my sour apple bird. I skim heavy and I just started dosing Red Sea No3/Po4 X to try to get better color. I think this is similar to micro bacter 7. I'm not sure what's going on. I just switched to Red Sea Coral Pro, but I did so slowly to make sure not to shock anything, so I doubt that's it. I have an Ecoxotic PAR 38 lamp lighting the tank. Growth was great but now I'm seeing color loss and necrosis. My hypothesis is that starting to dose the Red Sea NO3/PO4 X that I'm stripping the water completely.

Here's my levels all via Red Sea Pro:
NO3- 0
PO4- .03
Calc- 375
Mag- 1400
Alk- 8

I tested these after a week went by without a water change. Just did one today.

 

[_dilly]

could definitely be that you're stripping the water completely and it's too clean. they could be starving. do you feed sps?
also just a suggestion - your numbers look good but are quite a bit different that red sea coral pro - if you switched to pro and plan to run those numbers you listed, the regular red sea salt (non-pro) is very close to your current levels. just might help to minimize any water change swings...just fyi

 

[Jkeating8]

Why are my SPS so pale?

could definitely be that you're stripping the water completely and it's too clean. they could be starving. do you feed sps?

also just a suggestion - your numbers look good but are quite a bit different that red sea coral pro - if you switched to pro and plan to run those numbers you listed, the regular red sea salt (non-pro) is very close to your current levels. just might help to minimize any water change swings...just fyi

I do not feed. I feed LPS some PE Mysis and I feed my six line that as well. I'm going to the LFS tomorrow so I can pick something up. Any suggestions? I think my plan of attack will be to lower the dose of Red Sea and only dose every other day. I'll also start feeding SPS. Hopefully that will help out.

As for salt, I recently just switched in the last week or so. I probably haven't even done enough water changes to change the entire tank volume. I've been doing about a half gallon every few days or so.

Edit: Also, Ph changes from 8.2-8.3 throughout the day. Temp stays steady at 78, and SG at 1.025.

 

[Jkeating8]

Forgot to attach pics-

 

[muttley101]

Need a little NO3... probably starving...

 

[Jkeating8]

I'm going to back off the Red Sea then. Lower dose and fewer doses.

 

[_dilly]

I do not feed. I feed LPS some PE Mysis and I feed my six line that as well. I'm going to the LFS tomorrow so I can pick something up. Any suggestions? I think my plan of attack will be to lower the dose of Red Sea and only dose every other day. I'll also start feeding SPS. Hopefully that will help out.

As for salt, I recently just switched in the last week or so. I probably haven't even done enough water changes to change the entire tank volume. I've been doing about a half gallon every few days or so.

Edit: Also, Ph changes from 8.2-8.3 throughout the day. Temp stays steady at 78, and SG at 1.025.

Most solid LFS have phytofeast & oysterfeast, maybe pick those up. also things like reef chili from brs, coral vitalizer and amino acids could help. i use a mix of all that stuff. i'm sure more people will have suggestions as there are tons of foods.

As for the salt, I think if you eventually start doing larger water changes, you might want to switch to the red sea non-pro but just a suggestion. i guess the determining factor is - do you dose 2 part/kalk/etc daily? if so, i'd definitely switch to non-pro. if you have a lower hard coral load and just do smaller water changes w the pro keeping things steady that could be fine, but to me it's best to use a salt that is closest to your stable numbers

 

[Jkeating8]

Ok. I'm pretty sure my LFS has them both. I'll pick some up tomorrow. I don't dose anything, so I'll just stick to smaller water changes to maintain some consistency in levels.

 

[tmz]

Nitrogen deficiency perhaps. Could be something else in the organic carbon source ,perhaps sugar. Hard to say. Akalinity swings also effect sps.

 

[Jkeating8]

Why are my SPS so pale?

Nitrogen deficiency perhaps. Could be something else in the organic carbon source ,perhaps sugar. Hard to say. Akalinity swings also effect sps.

I'm leaning towards no3. Alk doesn't really swing from what I've seen.
How would sugar in the carbon source effect the tank? Just curious.

 

[tdb320reef]

Why NO3- 0

Solution NO3 = 1PPM or more

 

[Jkeating8]

Why NO3- 0

Solution NO3 = 1PPM or more

I'll work on that. Thanks!

 

[tmz]

I would say if you choose to dose NO3 it would be to1ppm or less. Natural Seawater is about 0.2ppm . My tanks do well at 0.2ppm give or take a tad and hold low PO4 .02ppm to .04 ppm .

NO3PO4 X is a carbon source of mixed types but we don't know exaclty what's in it. Might be perfectly fine. I've had good luck for 5.5 years with vodka and vinegar. Tried small amounts of sugar with it twice and got some coral browning and recission. Carbohydrates and sugars have a longer bacteial pathway than ehtanol/vodka and acetic acid/viengar ,ie more and different bacterial reactions. May be fine for some but not for me and several others I know. NO3PO4X is used by some of my freinds in small amounts without any signs of trouble so far though.

Sugar has caused problems for several who have tried it. Excess glucose has been linked to coral mortality in at least one study.

 

[mikedoyle]

I had the same issue for a while and it was due to nutrient defincency. I started feeding with BRS reef chili and oyster feast and also dosing reef fuel everyother day and things look 100 times better

 

[PaleHorse]

Korallen-Zucht ZEOvit Coral Vitalizer Coral Food is also awesome.

 

[Jkeating8]

Korallen-Zucht ZEOvit Coral Vitalizer Coral Food is also awesome.

Is dosing the entire Zeovit system worth it? I'm just speaking generally.

 

[Jkeating8]

I would say if you choose to dose NO3 it would be to1ppm or less. Natural Seawater is about 0.2ppm . My tanks do well at 0.2ppm give or take a tad and hold low PO4 .02ppm to .04 ppm .

NO3PO4 X is a carbon source of mixed types but we don't know exaclty what's in it. Might be perfectly fine. I've had good luck for 5.5 years with vodka and vinegar. Tried small amounts of sugar with it twice and got some coral browning and recission. Carbohydrates and sugars have a longer bacteial pathway than ehtanol/vodka and acetic acid/viengar ,ie more and different bacterial reactions. May be fine for some but not for me and several others I know. NO3PO4X is used by some of my freinds in small amounts without any signs of trouble so far though.

Sugar has caused problems for several who have tried it. Excess glucose has been linked to coral mortality in at least one study.

Understood. Thank you. I'll see where it goes from here.

 

[tmz]

Setting the potential nutrient deficiency aside for the moment. lighting may also cause the paling. I've rescued bleaching frags from firend's tanks where the lighting was more intense than mine and have had nearly pure white specimens regain color with a month.

FWIW,I have not used the zeovit products nor do I dose trace element supplements. Amminos might be a good source of nitrogen . Coral foods are useful too but I don't use very much,very often . I do feed the aquiarums heavily primarily with frozen foods of various types ;there is a large fish population, I also do regular water changes ,1% per day, plus some for maintenance tasks ,total about 35% per month,

 

[Jkeating8]

Setting the potential nutrient deficiency aside for the moment. lighting may also cause the paling. I've rescued bleaching frags from firend's tanks where the lighting was more intense than mine and have had nearly pure white specimens regain color with a month.

FWIW,I have not used the zeovit products nor do I dose trace element supplements. Amminos might be a good source of nitrogen . Coral foods are useful too but I don't use very much,very often . I do feed the aquiarums heavily primarily with frozen foods of various types ;there is a large fish population, I also do regular water changes ,1% per day, plus some for maintenance tasks ,total about 35% per month,

I think that the lighting plays a little bit of a role. The PAR 38 could never seem to bring out the best colors on anything. I'm switching to Razor Nano soon. I would jump to say the lighting is causing the bleaching, i haven't touched my light in two months. Everything has been fine until about a week ago. That's why I tend to believe it is a deficiency problem.

Ok. I may look into it then. Im about to start an ADA 60P so I should start a build thread I guess.

 

[rovster]

Could be a number of things. Why were you dosing the NoPox to begin with? You say to improve colors, but were the corals healthy otherwise? Or were colors off AND looking kinda ragged?

Couple of things to look into:
1. Lighting. Par bulbs are OK, but you need to make sure you have enough
2. NoPox stripping the water to quickly
3. RSCP mixes to around 12dkh. You do a large enough water change and you may spike your alk >1dkh, I know that because I use the same salt
4. High alk or an alk spike in conjuction with carbon dosing is a big no-no. I know because its happened to me. Any time my alk starts to creep up, the first thing I notice is my green birdsnest gets some die off at the tips.

The other thing I've noticed is that after some kind of event int he tank (temp change, alk spike, significant nutrient change) the corals kind of shut down for a few days. If I stay on my regular dosing regimen, alk will creep and lead to this vicious circle. It usually happens when I'm out of town for a few days, and although I usually have someone dose the tank, its not spread out as it is when I'm home.

I would track your alk daily and see how it behaves.

I also had some issues with paling corals. I even started a thread on it. I was also stripping my tank, and after a few months of feeding heavy and dosing all kinds of stuff, things got better.

Finding that balance is tough though. Its much easier to feed a little too much, and when you see algae, back off a little as opposed to strip the tank completely and try and figure out how much you need to add to make everything happy. Good luck. Its a continual learning process......