Why do my SPS die? Need help!

xtrstangx

Premium Member
Well, after I had 2 more pieces start to RTN on me, I figure its probably time to ask for help. This is going to be a really really long post, by the way.

- 40g display
- 30g sump (20g running volume) with ASM G-1X and ~10 gallon fuge with chaeto
- Mag 7 return into a manifold with 3 Loc-line returns
- 2x175w XM 20K 9" off the surface with a 30w NO actinic
- 2 Phosban reactors, one with Rowaphos, the other with carbon
- 40-50# of Fiji LR
- 1.5-2" sand bed in the display, aragonite
- 4" sand bed in the fuge, silica
-Seio 820 and a Maxi-jet 1200 (MJ on a 5 min on/off timer) for a 40x turnover rate approx
- Calcium/Alkalinity is added by RHF's 2-part DIY formula

Temperature is controlled by a Reefkeeper 2 so temperature is extremely stable (literally only .1º fluctuation)

So, according to the books, my lights and skimmer are fine. I don't have any question in my mind that this is causing the problems.

My parameters:
pH: 8.03 currently (usually 8.15ish with MH on)
Temp: 80.5º
Salinity: 1.026
Calcium: 365 :eek1:
Alkalinity: 2.5 meq/L or 7 dKH (little bit low)
Magnesium: 1350
Phosphate: .01 (just the faintest hint of blue in the Salifert)
Nitrate: 7.5

I do weekly water changes, usually 5g or sometimes 10g (8.3% and 16.6% respectively). This along with the skimmer and the carbon leaves the water crystal clear.

Anyways on to the SPS. Most frags I can keep for about a month or two before they start to RTN/STN from the base. All of my frags are from other reefers,from Reefer Madness group orders, or ORA frags from the LFS. I mount them all onto little pieces of rock rubble with Aquamend epoxy and super glue. There is no sign that I can tell of red bugs or AEFW. I've lost monti caps, monti digis, ORA Blue Tort, stags, milleaporas, etc.

My LPS and zoos are doing fine. The only softie I have in the tank is a tiny patch of xenia.

So I've narrowed it down to 3 possibilities:
1. I have a Flame Angelfish in the tank. They are hit/miss on nipping. I have never seen him nip at any SPS other than 1 time he was picked 4 times at a new Montipora Digitata. Never seen him nip other than that (he does eat open brain LPS though).
2. Maybe once a month I leave the RO/DI running and drop the salinity down from 1.026 to 1.019... There is never any direct RTN after this.. I slowly bring the salinity back up by topping off with saltwater.
3. The silica sand in my fuge. I got it from someone and assumed that he rinsed it.. Now that I think about it, he didn't rinse it and neither did I. I'm pretty sure it is Quikrete's sand.

Should I see if the LFS can babysit the Flame Angel for a week? I'm really thinking its the Flame Angel cause I never have any PE and they usually take a month or two to die.

Thanks for the help.
 
a couple of things, first your Ca is too low so is your alk. also your salinity is a bit close to the high side, I would bring that down to about 1.024. But the one thing that I would simply get rid of is the silica in your fuge, I would replace it with fine argonite sand.
 
try and reduce the nitrates.. sps are pita's and if something changes or is off "nornmal" it will cause problems...

but i agree get the calcium to at least 400 raise alk

i keep my salinity at 1.026 so i dont think that is a problem...
 
everything has to be stable

i wouldnt add anything for a month and do tests in the month to see if everything is stable
 
I'll try raising up the Ca/Alk. I didn't realize they dropped so low, I usually keep them up higher (I added some 2-part right after I tested). I broke my femur and I was pretty immobolized for a while.
 
Beyond the salinity instability you and others already mentioned, I'd look at the Rowa you're running. Couple years ago there was a lot of discussion about base-up STN related to Fe based PO4 binders. If you're running a reactor on that small a total water volume it might be the culprit. If I'm not mistaken JBNY recommended using as little as 1/4 of what the manufacturers say and either passively or ahead of the carbon in sequence. HTH good luck :)
 
Interested PUGroyale.. perhaps I can just run the reactors into one another. I don't use as much as they recommend, I usually just eye-ball it...
 
Base up sounds like flow or po4 remover related.

Salinity isn't the prob .

BTW

my tank is @ 7 dkh,380 ca,1250 mg,10 nitrate ,1.026, and po4 .01 (colorimeter)

My corals are perfect and color is awesome.

Also I would recomend that you stop with the po4 remover for now until things are back on track.
 
I doubt it has anything to do with Rowa. I along with several other use it with no problems.
How's your flow? I don't see that mentioned anywhere. Your nitrates are a little high for sps, and your pH is a little low, but I doubt that's the prob either. Other than that everything seems ok, minus the silica sand...I dont like the sound of that.
 
The flow is a Mag 7 return into a manifold with 3 Loc-line outputs. About 150 GPH each or so. I have a Seio 820 that goes nonstop and then I have a Maxi-jet 1200 that turns on/off every 5 min. So about 40x turnover.
 
My guess would be the salinity drop. I would think that when you drop it down to 1.019 you are also dropping your alk and calcium levels. I know you said they don't rtn directly, but I would guess they rtn in about a week and a half later. What is the reasoning behind this any way. The only thing I have heard of this being used for is ich. This also goes against the number 1 rule "stability"
Jerry
 
I 'd stop shocking the system by dropping the salinity so low... SPS do NOT like changes in water parameters at all. Invest in an automated top off system.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7654321#post7654321 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JAANDGC
My guess would be the salinity drop. I would think that when you drop it down to 1.019 you are also dropping your alk and calcium levels. I know you said they don't rtn directly, but I would guess they rtn in about a week and a half later. What is the reasoning behind this any way. The only thing I have heard of this being used for is ich. This also goes against the number 1 rule "stability"
Jerry

I accidently leave the RO/DI running.

I am getting a topoff for the new tank, but may look into setting it up for a month when this tank is still running... I guess I could use a 5g bucket for the resorvoir.
 
not trying to insult you but try making a or sign to remind you NOT to accidentaly leave you ro/di on. I did this after a small flood on my make up water. I made a sign that read water on. when it was on the sign was out, when it was off the sign was upside down. it worked great, but I have since put a float valve on the reservoir.
 
rtbm: After the 2nd time or so, we started turning the timer on the stove on (really loud and obnoxious) whenever we turn the RO/DI on. The last time (the 3rd time... its not once a month, only 3 times in 8 months) I turned on the timer and then we rushed out to dinner and completely forget about the RO/DI. No more incidents since then, that was a while ago, atleast 2 months?
 
I'd say start fixing the things you know are wrong, then go to the ones you know flux a bit [corals hate flux of any kind], and then go to the ones that remotely and by rumor could be the problem, like the rowaphos. At some level, there's going to be a fix. I'm guessing it will stop at level 2.

I am curious where that nitrate is coming from in a sps tank. I run five fish in mine [admittedly small fish] and never have nitrate. You don't have a filter medium or sponge somewhere in the water flow, do you?
 
No filter in there.. I have a sponge on my skimmer which I am going to get rid of shortly, but I clean it often. My mom feeds the fish now (hard to get food from the fridge and bring it back to the tank with crutches) and she overfeeds quite a bit, IMO. I've been having her cut back recently and I need to have my dad do a water change tomorrow/Saturday. Its nice not to have to do any of the tank maintenaince :D
 
I agree with clkwrk, try not running the phosphate media for awhile. Your tank should be fine going without it (since many don't even use it and you have a chaeto fuge) and it is worth a look.

Also what kind of test kits do you use?
 
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