Why do we assume a large return pump is needed?

[pete123]

Herbert

thanks for the post the info is very helpful, i am setting up a 240 and I have rethought my design. Almost seems too easy.

Thanks again

 

[jnarowe]

pete123 If you read some books on reef keeping like Borneman's "aquarium corals", you will see a common thought that simpler is better. Many of these guys don't even use skimmers.

 

[pete123]

I have read some of Borneman's posts on his forum- i am still learning- some of us are slower than others!!! But i am making progress.

 

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

meagan_myers, it was late last night when I first saw your diagram, and I am simply too busy right now to take it in. I will look it over and get back to you...I kinda figured maybe someone else on-board would be able to give you some input until I have a chance to look at it better.

 

[meagan_myers]

Thanks. no rush

 

[RGibson]

meagan try to fine a different pump then the dolphin ampmaster 3000 for your tank.

 

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6249077#post6249077 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Herbert T. Kornfeld
sjm817, what about an integrated sump (hidden behind the tank)? Sorry, I dont know whattank size you have...but I have seen it work very well even on 100g+ tanks. Well, worse comes to worse, the low flow idea could be coupled with one of those ReeFlo 'Goby' pumps when it comes out...something like 1000gph and 24' of head for 100watts...not bad for a basement sump application.

I do have a sump now and a pretty good setup (I think so anyway)
My beef with too big return pumps aren't really power draw. Its the reduced skimmer performance, noise, microbubble issues. There are plenty of ways to put together an energy efficient setup. Return pump is just one piece of the equation. I would say my setup is more "energy star" than many.

Having a basement fish room would allow me to have a big stocking tank sump, bigger fuge, external skimmer (without the worry of a leak), more room for reactors, easier water change access etc, etc. In this case, a return pump big enough to make that happen wouldn't even be a thought! Either that or a fish room.

Here is my current setup:
90G AGA
HOB Amiracle (soon to be Lifereef) overflow
30G DIY sump/fuge
Auto topoff and Nilsen reactor
Mag5 return to OM Squirt (45W)
Deltec AP600 (20W)
Tunze 6000 (15w)
(2) MJ900 (display) (17W)
(2) TLF 150 reactors (carbon/Rowahos) driven by MJ400 (5W)
6 x 54W T5 lighting (324W)
Fuge light 18W

Grand total of 444W for the system.

 

[jnarowe]

wow, my lamps alone are 3000W. BTW, I have a fish room and I will still do an "internal" skimmer. It's just going to be 6' tall.

 

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6255794#post6255794 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
wow, my lamps alone are 3000W. BTW, I have a fish room and I will still do an "internal" skimmer. It's just going to be 6' tall.

Is that on the FW planted, or the 1000G reef?

 

[ericgreathouse]

Pump Advice

Pump Advice

I just moved and I'm taking this opportunity to rethink my 180 gallon reef setup. I was using a Sequence 5800 for my return, primarily because the sump was in the basement and it had to pump water up about 15 feet. But it was still too powerful and my skimmer production was minimal.

My current setup is going to use a Tunze stream for the circulation and a 1" Sea-Swirl on the return line. I would like the return pump to also feed the UV and the Calcium Reactor, but I have some RIO's that I could use for that if needed.

Any advice on make/model for the return pump? It will have about 6' of head loss.

Thanks.

 

[meagan_myers]

RGibson, a different pump because the dolphin may be too much?

 

[RGibson]

meagan the dolphin pump is not very well built , and the flow will be to low. Ralph

 

[meagan_myers]

I know the seal would need to be replaced. Other than that, it is still a bad choice? And the flow will be too low??

 

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

ericgreathouse, I was just at a the prez's house this weekend for the WRS christmas party (Wisconsin Reefer's Society). He uses a Velocity T4 as a return pump for his two reef tanks which are run off of one sump...a 90g bow and and a 72g bow. It gives him about 400gph to each tank and he has about the same head as you would. I would say that is a great choice, or the T3 even, which is slightly lower flow at 0', but is made for alot more pressure...so either one...the Velocity T3 or T4 would be prefect for a 180. In the president's setup, he even has the skimmer in a bucket that the overflows feed into first before the rest of the sump, so the skimmer get first grabs at the overflow water and proteins before the rest...

For those who have been following, and wonder about how a lower flow sump could actually improve skimmer performance...well, lets just say Im not the only one onto it...Calfo seems to agree...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=554786

 

[jnarowe]

HTK: Something I am contemplating is how to split my return flow between the display and the refugium. Using a "T" would create more resistance than a "Y", but I can't seem to find a "Y". I found a 3-way valve that might do the trick I think, but I don't know if that type of flow control is the best. initially I thought I would use a "Y" with a valve to control flow on each line.

How are other reefers splitting the flow? I also want the return flow to rotate between two inlets and I haven't got an answer back from Ocean Motions. Any suggestion?

 

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Why would a "T" create more restance than a "Y"? Er, um wait...I think I know what you are doing jnarowe...rotate that "T" 90degrees, ok?

 

[jnarowe]

LOL...it still creates more resistance than a "Y" I would think. If you look at head calculations, every "T" is a demerit. A "Y" would not be as much of a loss. I am going to use flexible line and as few turns as possible.

BTW, that Calfo thread is great. I am planning on building a counter-current skimmer that will get direct overflow water gravity fed and controlling water flow with an exit gate valve.

 

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Not really, if you make the T on its side, it has a straight shot straight up. If you make this out of a pipe size larger, like 1.5" pipe on a 1" return (or dual 1" returns), your back pressure will be that much more minimal. FWIW, I would consider a T less restrictive than a Y. A T allows for a straight shot in the most dynamic line, where a Y means both lines have a slight angle. Its almost a toss-up. The T can be considered a straight shot with minimal loss for the main line which could use all the help it can get...and the T off to the side can be considered a pressure relief, and since its flow is secondary to the main return, its a minimal loss since any loss in pressure on it will be in a more static situation (slower flow), in which case the angle is less important. The higher pressure at this height will play a larger role.

edit: the head loss calculator assumes equal flow is desired to each outlet and equal back-pressure at every outlet...this isnt the case here. The main line is more of a hydrodynamic situation and the side T is more hydrodynamics. I dont want to get into the hydrodynamics and conservation of energy behind it...I hope it kind of makes sense however.

 

[jnarowe]

OK...what about this? I thought about doing a T with the straight line being the return to the display tank and the side returning to the refugium, but in the interest of safety, I want the inlet for the refugium to be above water so there is no chance of it flowing down hill if the power goes out or the return pump fails.

With that line being in the air, wouldn't the higher flow to the display create a suction instead and bring air into the system? Kind of like how gravel vacuums work on faucet flow?

 

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

It would take a pretty strong pump, or very restrictive piping to create a venturi at that point. In this setting, I wouldnt worry about it one bit.