Why not make an offer

[pisanoal]

I am utterly amazed at a lot of the opinions in this thread. Everyone is entitled to theirs, but wow this is eye opening.


I don't understand the idea that negotiating (in good faith) is antagonistic. Maybe some people just don't like it and are uncomfortable, because they aren't good at it.

Buyers can come with a low offer, but the seller can't start with a high offer? That is a weird position to take. If it is too much work for you to make an offer and negotiate toward an acceptable deal, as the buyer, then you deserve to either pay more than you could have, or to have to look elsewhere for a better deal. If it is too much work as the seller to negotiate toward an acceptable deal, then you deserve to get less than what you could have, or have to wait for another buyer to come along.

And by the way, where is the rule that says the seller has to come down to his minimum acceptable offer every time? That is a skewed view. The seller might have multiple potential buyers, in which case, the buyers are competing with each other. But, the seller might be competing with other sellers for the attention of a single buyer. It is all about leverage, who has it, and who doesn't, just like it should. Kinda sounds like supply and demand, no?

Any time that one party wants to sell an item, that item has a certain value to them, and a separate value to the buyer. How bad does the buyer want it, how bad does the seller need to sell it, how hard is it to find, how many are available, all those things come into it. Working toward a price that meets both parties' perceived value is not by any means antagonistic. You don't have to make a deal. If the price is too high, you don't have to buy it. If the offer is too low, you don't have to sell it.

A seller can't force the buyer to purchase it, and vice-versa. So I don't know what the problem is. I have never been offended by a low ball offer, I just make a counter offer. Sometimes that leads to additional negotiation, sometimes not.

As the seller or the buyer, you have no idea of the other party's situation. They might be willing to spend way more than what you think. Or they might be willing to sell it for way less than their initial price. Chances are you will never know, and ultimately, that is a good thing.

It would be interesting to know everybody's age in this thread. I am 44. My guess would be that there are a lot of millennials in this thread.

I am a "millennial" at 29, but I'm not sure how that comes into play as all of my posts are in agreement with everything you have said here...

 

[tklb]

I am a "millennial" at 29, but I'm not sure how that comes into play as all of my posts are in agreement with everything you have said here...

I just find it very interesting that many millennials are very pro socialism and anti-capitalism.

Obviously not all, as you prove. I have a lot of friends that are millennials, and they have some very unique views.

 

[Rakie]

That said, I NEVER get mad at lowball offers. Lots of people do, and they need to be thicker skinned. Like people who list "NO LOW BALLS!" in their ad. I just skip over those if I'm a buyer. If I get a lowball offer, I reply nicely that the lowest I would take is $x. I have sold several times to people who initially offered ridiculous amounts but later came up to something reasonable.

I feel you, but it does get aggravating at times. There are some... 'characters' out there.

There's a guy on another forum I frequent. He's begging to buy a Radion G3, refuses to pay more than $150 for it.. Yet he's selling a ratty old poorly repaired Octopus 1000 skimmer for $160.. When *that* guy emails you an 'offer' you know it's gonna really good for a laugh, and not much else. When he PM's you about every single item, multiple times.. It gets old, fast.

 

[pisanoal]

I just find it very interesting that many millennials are very pro socialism and anti-capitalism.

Obviously not all, as you prove. I have a lot of friends that are millennials, and they have some very unique views.

Haha. I'm not going to lie, I took a little offense to that comment. But your post says why...

 

[Rakie]

I just find it very interesting that many millennials are very pro socialism and anti-capitalism.

Obviously not all, as you prove. I have a lot of friends that are millennials, and they have some very unique views.

I think it's because big business is basically the devil, and people are seeing that more clearly, even at younger ages.

The kids on campus are 'meh' about politics. They're meh about almost every single topic there is, but they all hate big corporations.

 

[tklb]

I think it's because big business is basically the devil, and people are seeing that more clearly, even at younger ages.

The kids on campus are 'meh' about politics. They're meh about almost every single topic there is, but they all hate big corporations.

I would disagree, and say that the younger generation doesn't know what socialism really is. Not their fault, they just aren't being taught.

Don't want to take this topic too far away from the OP's original premise.

Back to Negotiating...

 

[pisanoal]

I think it's because big business is basically the devil, and people are seeing that more clearly, even at younger ages.

The kids on campus are 'meh' about politics. They're meh about almost every single topic there is, but they all hate big corporations.

I don't know where you got that they are "meh" about politics, but from what I have seen, that is very false. Of course, the more vehement ones are the ones you notice more, but I see them as for the most part strongly liberal and very vocal about it. Which is funny to me, because most of them haven't had to earn anything yet, hence the "socialism" views. I was not very political in college, because I recognized I didn't know enough yet. Obviously what I said is not ubiquitous, just my observation.

 

[pisanoal]

I would disagree, and say that the younger generation doesn't know what socialism really is. Not their fault, they just aren't being taught.

Don't want to take this topic too far away from the OP's original premise.

Back to Negotiating...

Yes, back on topic... haha

 

[Bent]

Considering the amount of people who suffered and died at the hands of communist dictators, the amount of people who died fighting those communist dictators and those people who are currently living in the throes of socialism, i think you have the wrong "devil". Make no mistake about it, despite the current propaganda being spit out, the only difference between socialism and communism is a gun.

The demonization of businesses and corporations and anti-capitalistic propaganda is a huge problem in this country today, and it's all done for the monetary and power gain of those individuals pushing it.

Capitalism and business is the heart of America, if people don't like it, there are jets and boats that leave every day.

 

[Rakie]

I don't know where you got that they are "meh" about politics, but from what I have seen, that is very false. Of course, the more vehement ones are the ones you notice more, but I see them as for the most part strongly liberal and very vocal about it. Which is funny to me, because most of them haven't had to earn anything yet, hence the "socialism" views. I was not very political in college, because I recognized I didn't know enough yet. Obviously what I said is not ubiquitous, just my observation.

I get it from me being a college student surrounded by students who couldn't give a rats about politics. Yeah, young people are engaged in politics as well, but in all my courses when politics come up those who have actual concerns are the *vast* minority. As a whole, were rather short-sighted. Most students care more about whats happening Friday then next year.

I think that could be in part due to politicians all but refusing to take any stances on anything outside the obvious party generalities. When asked who votes in sociology, a class of 70'ish students had less than 10 who bother to vote.

 

[Bent]

I get it from me being a college student surrounded by students who couldn't give a rats about politics. Yeah, young people are engaged in politics as well, but in all my courses when politics come up those who have actual concerns are the *vast* minority. As a whole, were rather short-sighted. Most students care more about whats happening Friday then next year.

I think that could be in part due to politicians all but refusing to take any stances on anything outside the obvious party generalities. When asked who votes in sociology, a class of 70'ish students had less than 10 who bother to vote.

Can you blame them? I don't. Craps depressing dude.

 

[hkgar]

I just find it very interesting that many millennials are very pro socialism and anti-capitalism.

Interesting, I felt the same way about those who think that negotiating is "antagonistic". Sort of, let someone else tell me what to do.

Oh and I am the OP and age 72. Been around a bit, but didn't expect this amount of reaction to my post. WOW

 

[itz frank]

Considering the amount of people who suffered and died at the hands of communist dictators, the amount of people who died fighting those communist dictators and those people who are currently living in the throes of socialism, i think you have the wrong "devil". Make no mistake about it, despite the current propaganda being spit out, the only difference between socialism and communism is a gun.

The demonization of businesses and corporations and anti-capitalistic propaganda is a huge problem in this country today, and it's all done for the monetary and power gain of those individuals pushing it.

Capitalism and business is the heart of America, if people don't like it, there are jets and boats that leave every day.

We're leaving the original topic but remind me how the most recent Wells Fargo venture benefited anyone pro-capitalism.

I'm 31 and I share a mixed view of this. The biggest problem that we have is that people deserve to be paid for their services and the consumer deserves to not be ripped off. So, at a certain point there needs to be some governing of what "fair" pay for "fair" services is. Winning in capitalism, IMO, is where everyone loses. The seller doesn't get everything they want and neither does the buyer. But that's kind of the idea behind capitalism. Businesses openly competing with each other to create a fair market for everyone.

Unfortunately, bad business is more than just propaganda and the idea that capitalism itself will govern itself is as skewed as me saying that socialism is a good idea.

I feel that you need to find grounds in the middle for everyone to win.

Also, I'm 31 and I sell cars for a living. I feel that I deserve to be paid for my time and my product. But at the same time, you as the consumer do not deserve to be taken advantage of. I pay retail for almost everything as long as I get good service and the product that I'm getting is as promised. Period.



I think that the nail was hit on the head earlier. The buyer is not required to buy. The seller is also not required to sell. If you don't like negotiating, pay asking price or move on.

 

[EMeyer]

I'm 40, very pro capitalism, very anti socialism. This isnt political. Its about civilized behavior. Haggling is something you encounter in third world countries and not something we should import to our society.

Its inherently antagonistic to expect the buyer to haggle because of the dishonesty. The price youve listed isnt the actual price you expect to receive? Then just save us both some time and be honest about the price in the first place.

Its inherently antagonistic to the seller because theyve listed their price, and now youre gonna try to give them less? They just told you the price, what makes you such a special unique snowflake that you get to have it for less?

"Developing negotiating skills". Thats like telling me I need to develop some sleight of hand skills so I can slip merchandise in my pockets without anyone noticing. Yes it would benefit me, but no its not how the world should work.

To be clear, I'm not arguing its unethical or illegal to expect haggling. Just very rude, rude enough I'm immediately no longer interested in any kind of transactions with the person. We dont all have to agree. But its useful to know when the behavior youre encouraging ****es off a fraction of society.

 

[hkgar]

Two important principle of the free market. Sorry to use the Latin, but I would encourage those who don't understand these principles to look them up and study them.

Caveat emptor
laissez-faire

 

[hbrochs]

I'm 40, very pro capitalism, very anti socialism. This isnt political. Its about civilized behavior. Haggling is something you encounter in third world countries and not something we should import to our society.

Its inherently antagonistic to expect the buyer to haggle because of the dishonesty. The price youve listed isnt the actual price you expect to receive? Then just save us both some time and be honest about the price in the first place.

Its inherently antagonistic to the seller because theyve listed their price, and now youre gonna try to give them less? They just told you the price, what makes you such a special unique snowflake that you get to have it for less?

"Developing negotiating skills". Thats like telling me I need to develop some sleight of hand skills so I can slip merchandise in my pockets without anyone noticing. Yes it would benefit me, but no its not how the world should work.

To be clear, I'm not arguing its unethical or illegal to expect haggling. Just very rude, rude enough I'm immediately no longer interested in any kind of transactions with the person. We dont all have to agree. But its useful to know when the behavior youre encouraging ****es off a fraction of society.

I don't understand how negotiating for a used item is rude. There are plenty of situations where the price is fixed, groceries, gas and the like. My car, Tesla, is sold at a fixed price. I knew this going in, and it was a great stress free buying experience. So its nice when the buyer offers the item at a fair price and the seller just pays it. Say its a high priced item, like an ELOS tank thats a year old. I don't see where its rude to make an offer below the ask.

I sold my mom's car on Craigslist in one day. I priced it just a little below blue book. Got multiple offers, and we got to choose the buyer that we liked the best. Each situation is different depending on supply and demand.

 

[scooters reef]

I'm glad I didn't just "accept" the offered price on my new house!!!! I also got many low-ball offers when selling my previous house. In the end, a different price was negotiated on each. On my old house I simply refused the low-ball offers, countered for those at least in the ballpark. In the end, one of those low-ball offers I refused outright with no counter came back with a 2nd offer close enough to accept. LOL, well below what I "hoped" for, but carrying two mortgages and maintenance adds up fast!!

Why should it be any different here? Used cars, rummage sales, all are open for offers. Just refuse the ones you don't like!!! If buying, know you may be refused and miss the deal. When I did my tear down I held pretty firm on my prices initially, then started coming down to move it all. On the other side of the coin I have sent messages to some sellers here and was surprised how offended they were. I always pointed out I KNEW it was a low-ball, hoped they got what they were asking, but clarified I have a LOT of time before I need the equipment so just give me a shout if/when they would accept it if it doesn't sell for them otherwise. 99% say thanks and get into side discussions, 1% flips out as if I was somehow denigrating what they were selling. Also, none were HUGE low balls, but just a little below what I'd seen others go for and time to wait.

With that said, I've never sent anyone a message but get a kick how many ask as much, or more, than I could get it new at BRS after accounting for the credits on next purchase. Why would I do that? Then sending an offer 10-15% below what I can get it brand new is offensive. LOL, I just move on!

 

[hkgar]

To those who believe is is rude, antagonistic or whatever you call it, negotiation takes place for every, new and used and if new and not controlled by MSRP). Any time you shop for a bargain by comparing prices you have participated in negotiation. But than there are those who believe it is virtually criminal for "big box" stores to sell for less.

 

[EMeyer]

Its funny how much pushback this simple idea is getting.

No, bargains are nothing like negotiation. The buyer knows ahead of time what the price is, and two buyers at the same store get the same price. The price doesnt depend on haggling (i.e. being an annoying SOB), so that some people get a good price and others get a bad price. Advertised bargains are equitable -- everyone gets the same bargain.

Yes, negotiating also happens with big ticket purchases like cars and houses. I'm not clear how thats a rebuttal. I am equally annoyed in those cases and if I could flip a switch and change history, I'd make it so that we didnt accept haggling in those cases either. Just like we dont accept haggling for a new TV, a gallon of milk, or a gallon of gasoline.


The expectation that if I dont haggle I'll pay a higher price is offensive. The fact that if someone else comes in after me and haggles, theyll get a better price, is ethically questionable at best.

Like I said -- we dont all have to agree. But when someone points out that they find a practice rude, whats the point of arguing? Thats like continuing to use the word retarded after people tell you theyre offended by it. Youre not offended, so do you argue with them and try to talk them out of it? Or do you take that as a learning opportunity, and realize that its a word that offends some people?

 

[jmm]

I'm 40, very pro capitalism, very anti socialism. This isnt political. Its about civilized behavior. Haggling is something you encounter in third world countries and not something we should import to our society.

Its inherently antagonistic to expect the buyer to haggle because of the dishonesty. The price youve listed isnt the actual price you expect to receive? Then just save us both some time and be honest about the price in the first place.

Its inherently antagonistic to the seller because theyve listed their price, and now youre gonna try to give them less? They just told you the price, what makes you such a special unique snowflake that you get to have it for less?

"Developing negotiating skills". Thats like telling me I need to develop some sleight of hand skills so I can slip merchandise in my pockets without anyone noticing. Yes it would benefit me, but no its not how the world should work.

To be clear, I'm not arguing its unethical or illegal to expect haggling. Just very rude, rude enough I'm immediately no longer interested in any kind of transactions with the person. We dont all have to agree. But its useful to know when the behavior youre encouraging ****es off a fraction of society.

This is how I feel, too.