I wish I was this concise... haha. 100% agreed
Why not make an offer
- Thread starter hkgar
- Start date
I wish I was this concise... haha. 100% agreed
jacksonpt
New member
IME, negotiating is rarely worth the time and energy. Even on bigger ticket items like cars. Pay what the item is worth to you. If the seller is asking more, look elsewhere. If they are asking less, consider yourself fortunate.
As far as corals go... the extent of my negotiating is whether or not the seller will cut me a larger frag than originally advertised, but I also offer to pay more for it.
I have no interest in dicking around over $5. It's just not worth it to me.
As far as corals go... the extent of my negotiating is whether or not the seller will cut me a larger frag than originally advertised, but I also offer to pay more for it.
I have no interest in dicking around over $5. It's just not worth it to me.
DivingTheWorld
Active member
Yep.
I always list a price with "OBO", like say $100 OBO. If someone emails me and says, "What's your best/lowest price?", I just reply with "$100 Or Best Offer".
That said, I NEVER get mad at lowball offers. Lots of people do, and they need to be thicker skinned. Like people who list "NO LOW BALLS!" in their ad. I just skip over those if I'm a buyer. If I get a lowball offer, I reply nicely that the lowest I would take is $x. I have sold several times to people who initially offered ridiculous amounts but later came up to something reasonable.
I agree, which is why I try to start in what is to the best of my knowledge, a fair market value. Like I said, that is a moving target which is why the negotiations are necessary. I tend to view someone selling something at exorbitantly high starting price as dishonest. Maybe they would sell if for a price I like, but id rather start with someone that shows they have a better idea of what its worth. If I am shooting myself in the foot because they would have sold it for the price I wanted, that's ok with my. If its rare, and i really want it, I might try to deal. In the other case, I might be the one who is wrong on the price, but then so might the other 3 people who have a better price listed. In which case, inherently the high baller is wrong.
Its good to think this way. Sometimes its hard, especially on sites like craigslist where there are so many ridiculous people who aren't serious about buying. If I get a ridiculous low ball of "would you take "x" (being less than 50% of what im asking," I will politely reply, "No, thanks for the offer." If they are serious, they will come up on their own. If they come up to a reasonable range, we will deal. If not, ive sorted through the a**clowns.
DivingTheWorld
Active member
How about the sob stories?
Insert sob story here:
My car is in the shop.
I don't get paid till next week.
My kid needed money for school.
We can't afford to pay full price because of x.
Sob stories annoy me and I never respond to them. I consider them a scam. If they're not a scam, I prefer them to keep their money. They obviously should be spending it elsewhere.
Insert sob story here:
My car is in the shop.
I don't get paid till next week.
My kid needed money for school.
We can't afford to pay full price because of x.
Sob stories annoy me and I never respond to them. I consider them a scam. If they're not a scam, I prefer them to keep their money. They obviously should be spending it elsewhere.
JZinCO
New member
Or.. "but I drove all the way here!"
Your examples of sob stories, I have gotten and I will NOT sell to them. If they can't afford it now, they can't afford it next week. They have money management issues and I will not participate in perpetuating their hardships.
Bent
I got nothin'
Mostly are. In health care when you collect someone's H&P and they start giving you some sob story, most of the time they are drug seeking.
JZinCO
New member
agreed. I guess if they ignore a perceived low-ball, either I did low-ball or they have unrealistic expectations. In either case the deal fails, just as if I, as a buyer, ignore any initial sale offers that are exorbitant. So I concede your initial point partially.
It's just, that in a thinly traded, local niche hobby market, the "fair" market value (as defined by what buyer and sellers will trade at) is not knowable until the trade has been made. If we did have a market with more buyers and sellers, then yeah it would make it easy to define a high/low ball offer (e.g. the bottom quartile of buyer's offers and the top quartile of seller's offers).
D-Nak
Active member
There's a reason I call my LFS "the crack den"
Negotiation is only antagonistic if you are attempting to get something from someone at their disadvantage. When you approach negotiation from the perspective that you are trying to find a place where both parties are happy, then you will be much more successful. All of my most successful negotiations were very friendly and left both of us feeling like we got what we were looking for. Negotiating is very different from taking advantage of someone.
"Antagonistic" tactics are arguably antithetical to the whole concept. A successful negotiation does not leave either party wishing they had done something differently. The sooner you can convey value to the other party, the sooner you can negotiate. I find that with online sales it is good to emphasize the value in simplicity i.e., "I am a serious buyer and will pay right away", "I see you have been trying to sell that for a while, I can get it off of your hands" or "I am in no rush so feel free to save on shipping".
Last edited:
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
Or, tell them to give a $100 or **** off. It's just easier that way. I hate hagglers. Post a price that you'll be happy receiving and stick to it.
The funny thing about selling or buying is that everything is worth something to someone.
You sell an item when the buyer sees enough value in the item to purchase it for the price discussed. Period. Now, that works two fold. If the buyer will buy something that is $100 for $50, you either show them the value to bring up their price or reduce the price to get to perceived value.
An offer is exactly what it says and most people will offer you below that you're listing something for. I think it's silly for someone to list something $100 OBO. You've basically told the buyer that you're not expecting to get $100 for it.
Selling is easy. List the item for what you want or fair value. Get offer from buyer. Build value in item and ask them to buy it at $x. It really is a simple process.
People that get mad that you won't "GIVE THEM YOUR BEST PRICE" are rediculous.
Imagine it like this... I come to your house. Your fridge isn't for sale. Again, IT IS NOT FOR SALE. But I hold out $3,000 in cash and ask you if I can have it. Your fridge wasn't for sale... but it is now. Period.
Buying and selling is emotional. I want $100 for my item. I wouldn't consider $50 on my own accord.... But it's been a few weeks that I've been trying to sell it and you message me and ask, would you take $50 if I come pick it up right now?.. I'm probably saying yes. But I wouldn't have considered it if you asked me what my best price was... I listed it for my best price... $100 is what I want.
Hopefully, you guys followed that rant.
You sell an item when the buyer sees enough value in the item to purchase it for the price discussed. Period. Now, that works two fold. If the buyer will buy something that is $100 for $50, you either show them the value to bring up their price or reduce the price to get to perceived value.
An offer is exactly what it says and most people will offer you below that you're listing something for. I think it's silly for someone to list something $100 OBO. You've basically told the buyer that you're not expecting to get $100 for it.
Selling is easy. List the item for what you want or fair value. Get offer from buyer. Build value in item and ask them to buy it at $x. It really is a simple process.
People that get mad that you won't "GIVE THEM YOUR BEST PRICE" are rediculous.
Imagine it like this... I come to your house. Your fridge isn't for sale. Again, IT IS NOT FOR SALE. But I hold out $3,000 in cash and ask you if I can have it. Your fridge wasn't for sale... but it is now. Period.
Buying and selling is emotional. I want $100 for my item. I wouldn't consider $50 on my own accord.... But it's been a few weeks that I've been trying to sell it and you message me and ask, would you take $50 if I come pick it up right now?.. I'm probably saying yes. But I wouldn't have considered it if you asked me what my best price was... I listed it for my best price... $100 is what I want.
Hopefully, you guys followed that rant.
jstack
New member
if ur old enough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNQRqAoT-2c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNQRqAoT-2c
scar79
New member
Interesting thread. I've sold stuff here, on car forums, and on ebay. This crowd is pretty good, but every group has its low ballers and tire kickers.
Ebay is the worst for low-ballers. You'll post something for sale lightly used for $175 when it's $250 new, and you get people asking you if you'll take $90 for it. Give me a break!
My buddy bought a Deep Blue tank at wholesale and decided not to use it. He threw it up on craigslist still wrapped in cellophane on a half pallet for exactly what he had paid for it, not looking to make a dime and trying to get retail for it. The only guy that offered him full ask would only pay that if my buddy delivered it to him 3 hours away. So many offers for 1/3, 1/2 what he was asking. Crazy.
My worst reefer experience was when I broke down my tank and was selling off livestock. I lined up several serious buyers and scheduled pickups. The last guy to pick up had committed to a good chunk of my livestock and had agreed to come the day I broke down. I had bagged all of his fish and corals, and when he showed up, he gave me this sob story about how he got pulled over on the way down and had to pay a fine so he couldn't afford to take everything. At this point, my tank is already drained, so I'm scrambling to find more buckets and splitting up water so I can keep the stuff he couldn't take so I could at least trade it in for pennies on the dollar at the LFS.
It's unfortunate, but a select few people can ruin it for everybody else. Nobody gets the benefit of the doubt unless they are well known members that other well known members know on a personal level.
Ebay is the worst for low-ballers. You'll post something for sale lightly used for $175 when it's $250 new, and you get people asking you if you'll take $90 for it. Give me a break!
My buddy bought a Deep Blue tank at wholesale and decided not to use it. He threw it up on craigslist still wrapped in cellophane on a half pallet for exactly what he had paid for it, not looking to make a dime and trying to get retail for it. The only guy that offered him full ask would only pay that if my buddy delivered it to him 3 hours away. So many offers for 1/3, 1/2 what he was asking. Crazy.
My worst reefer experience was when I broke down my tank and was selling off livestock. I lined up several serious buyers and scheduled pickups. The last guy to pick up had committed to a good chunk of my livestock and had agreed to come the day I broke down. I had bagged all of his fish and corals, and when he showed up, he gave me this sob story about how he got pulled over on the way down and had to pay a fine so he couldn't afford to take everything. At this point, my tank is already drained, so I'm scrambling to find more buckets and splitting up water so I can keep the stuff he couldn't take so I could at least trade it in for pennies on the dollar at the LFS.
It's unfortunate, but a select few people can ruin it for everybody else. Nobody gets the benefit of the doubt unless they are well known members that other well known members know on a personal level.
Sounds like we are on the same page for the most part. My "rare" item comment applies to what you said about thinly traded/local market etc. In that case, you are very right on it being hard to nail down a price. I guess I have been guilty of dismissing tanks i've been looking for because of an outrageous price on "full setups" that I thought were unreasonable. In my defense on that, when I have tried, they were not willing to negotiate much. They didn't understand you tend to not make your money back on this hobby. As this thread goes, I took it mostly as being about buying and selling on the dry goods forum here which is mostly used equipment. Its pretty easy to get a feel on market value on a lot of that stuff. There again, tanks and full setups are still sold locally on here, so that part holds true.
tklb
Member
I am utterly amazed at a lot of the opinions in this thread. Everyone is entitled to theirs, but wow this is eye opening.
I don't understand the idea that negotiating (in good faith) is antagonistic. Maybe some people just don't like it and are uncomfortable, because they aren't good at it.
Buyers can come with a low offer, but the seller can't start with a high offer? That is a weird position to take. If it is too much work for you to make an offer and negotiate toward an acceptable deal, as the buyer, then you deserve to either pay more than you could have, or to have to look elsewhere for a better deal. If it is too much work as the seller to negotiate toward an acceptable deal, then you deserve to get less than what you could have, or have to wait for another buyer to come along.
And by the way, where is the rule that says the seller has to come down to his minimum acceptable offer every time? That is a skewed view. The seller might have multiple potential buyers, in which case, the buyers are competing with each other. But, the seller might be competing with other sellers for the attention of a single buyer. It is all about leverage, who has it, and who doesn't, just like it should. Kinda sounds like supply and demand, no?
Any time that one party wants to sell an item, that item has a certain value to them, and a separate value to the buyer. How bad does the buyer want it, how bad does the seller need to sell it, how hard is it to find, how many are available, all those things come into it. Working toward a price that meets both parties' perceived value is not by any means antagonistic. You don't have to make a deal. If the price is too high, you don't have to buy it. If the offer is too low, you don't have to sell it.
A seller can't force the buyer to purchase it, and vice-versa. So I don't know what the problem is. I have never been offended by a low ball offer, I just make a counter offer. Sometimes that leads to additional negotiation, sometimes not.
As the seller or the buyer, you have no idea of the other party's situation. They might be willing to spend way more than what you think. Or they might be willing to sell it for way less than their initial price. Chances are you will never know, and ultimately, that is a good thing.
It would be interesting to know everybody's age in this thread. I am 44. My guess would be that there are a lot of millennials in this thread.
I don't understand the idea that negotiating (in good faith) is antagonistic. Maybe some people just don't like it and are uncomfortable, because they aren't good at it.
Buyers can come with a low offer, but the seller can't start with a high offer? That is a weird position to take. If it is too much work for you to make an offer and negotiate toward an acceptable deal, as the buyer, then you deserve to either pay more than you could have, or to have to look elsewhere for a better deal. If it is too much work as the seller to negotiate toward an acceptable deal, then you deserve to get less than what you could have, or have to wait for another buyer to come along.
And by the way, where is the rule that says the seller has to come down to his minimum acceptable offer every time? That is a skewed view. The seller might have multiple potential buyers, in which case, the buyers are competing with each other. But, the seller might be competing with other sellers for the attention of a single buyer. It is all about leverage, who has it, and who doesn't, just like it should. Kinda sounds like supply and demand, no?
Any time that one party wants to sell an item, that item has a certain value to them, and a separate value to the buyer. How bad does the buyer want it, how bad does the seller need to sell it, how hard is it to find, how many are available, all those things come into it. Working toward a price that meets both parties' perceived value is not by any means antagonistic. You don't have to make a deal. If the price is too high, you don't have to buy it. If the offer is too low, you don't have to sell it.
A seller can't force the buyer to purchase it, and vice-versa. So I don't know what the problem is. I have never been offended by a low ball offer, I just make a counter offer. Sometimes that leads to additional negotiation, sometimes not.
As the seller or the buyer, you have no idea of the other party's situation. They might be willing to spend way more than what you think. Or they might be willing to sell it for way less than their initial price. Chances are you will never know, and ultimately, that is a good thing.
It would be interesting to know everybody's age in this thread. I am 44. My guess would be that there are a lot of millennials in this thread.
This is the kind of low-balling that drives me crazy. But at the same time, I wouldn't have paid him what he paid for that tank.
If I can get it from a retailer for what im paying him for it, im going to get it from the retailer. That way, if there is an unseen flaw, I have a chance of getting my money back. Its also definitely somewhere between 1/2 price and full... Maybe 90% of value or so. The fact that no one offered him asking price contributes to what we have been talking about with perceived value, and market price being the whole reason negotiating is necessary.
jrp1588
New member
Hobbies are great for building negotiation skills. I've saved several hundred dollars in go fast parts for my Subaru alone in the past few months by shooting a very low initial offer, and then meeting in the middle. I usually start around 60% of asking price and work up. (got $400 off of a used turbo on ebay a month ago doing this, they actually accepted the initial offer) 50% offers tend to annoy me when I'm selling, so I don't want to step on the seller's toes.
Asking for the lowest price they'll take is just a lazy shortcut. I'll usually knock around 10% off my asking price if someone pulls that on me when I probably would have done 25% off had they done the dance. That being said, I'm glad I don't have to haggle prices when I go to the grocery store like some places in the world.
Asking for the lowest price they'll take is just a lazy shortcut. I'll usually knock around 10% off my asking price if someone pulls that on me when I probably would have done 25% off had they done the dance. That being said, I'm glad I don't have to haggle prices when I go to the grocery store like some places in the world.
Similar threads
