Why qt?

[Alex T.]

When I set up my tank I cycled it and let it run for 8 weeks without fish. Every fish was purchased healthy and eating and slowly acclimated to hyposalinity for 6-8 weeks in qt and then introduced to the display which was running hypo as well. I was finished stocking fish within 6 months of cycling the tank...all introduced the same way. Specific gravity was brought up to 1.025 over the course of a month. It's been a year and a half, reef doing well and my Achilles breaks out with ich. He's next to impossible to catch through the rockwork and sps corals, so I simply fed a little more and dripped some garlic in food for all fish.

Even after being so careful and following proper qt protocol, it happened. I'm wondering why in the world we go through the qt motions only to see the same results we would have seen anyway had we just drip acclimated the fish and put them in? I'm confused on this.

 

[Pallobi]

jus imagine if you hadn't done anything could have been ALOT worse... but i understand what you are saying... did you QT your corals too? something could have came in on a frag disc or coral base or something imo

 

[Alex T.]

Yup, all corals qt'd as well. Very frustrating. Achilles is doing much better. Spots are gone. Planning to upgrade to a 300 gallon system in the next few months from my 150. Once corals are out of the current display I will cycle the new tank and bring this one to hyposalinity again for another 8 weeks to let ich "run its' cycle".

The tank will be in-wall to my family room with dedicated fish room built in the garage. Without my Achilles though, I'd be really bummed. My prize fish. My Yellow tang and Achilles will be the only tangs (or fish for that matter) over 3 inches. I want a large school of anthias and chromis in the new 300.

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

I stopped QTing yeas ago.
Haven't had an ich outbreak since.
Stress causes ich, QTing causes stress.
Like I said in another thread you can QT a fish for a year but if you put that fish in a tank with poor water quality or bullies ich is almost a certainty.

 

[etepperman]

I have mixed feelings on this this. I never QT, and for 11 years was fine. Then got a new Powder Blue; inside of one month all my fish got terrible ick and died. Some of those fish were over 9 years old.

But on the other hand QT does cause stress, so what to do.

I think the best thing to do is to find a good LFS and let them do the QT. One less move for the fish. I have 3 LFS in my area. 1 of them buys large lots of fish and keeps them for months before selling them out. The other two bring in small shipments and sell them in days. The one that keeps them for months charges about 20% more, but I am 100% successfulness with them compared to 10% with the others.

So for me, at least for now, the answer is good LFS = no QT.

Now I wait to see how it goes over the next year or so.

-E

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

Well you did choose one of the most ich prone fish in the hobby.

 

[isildursbane]

I have not added fishes to my tank yet. Would love to see more people post on this topic.

 

[gsago1979]

Good LFS will QT fish prior to selling...I have not QT'd any fish in years since finding a great LFS...All my fish have been fat and happy eating on day one from my LFS...

I know more people that end up with dead fish from QT then those who just bring the fish home and place them in their tanks right away...

 

[Alex T.]

I usually give it a few days before I take any fish home. With the Achilles, I didn't want him staying in the lfs 20 gallon tank for too long, so once I established that he was eating mysis, he came home with me. That's why I'm baffled at how he caught ich. He eats mysis, bloodworms, pellet, nori...whatever I choose to feed he devours.

Even now with the ich, his appetite has stayed strong. I'm staying with the garlic, keeping on top of maintenance and hoping for the best.

 

[ntropics]

I have a tank with five butterflies. These are notorious for dying in quarantine in an empty tank. So I did not QT them. I recently got three new fish (BF's). I did do a formalin dip, and three days later, my new C. falcula got ich on its tail, then my new C. semilarvatus got one ich spot on its dorsal fin. These went away within ten days, but I am treating with no-ich now. It is a reef safe T'x that my LFS has had success with.
So QT'ing is indeed a double edged blade. I have successfully QT'd my naso tank and my Centropyge ferugatus angel, but butterflies did not survive one week in QT. I lost two C. melanotus (blackback butterfly), two C. quadrimaculatus (four spot) that had been in the LFS for over one month. So if I get another butterfly, I will not QT. Everything else though, I would want to QT or have the LFS do it for me. I cannot picture trying to get a fish out of my 180 with all of that rock in there!

Bruce

 

[Alex T.]

Well, I'm sad to report that early today my Achilles lost its battle with ich. For about a week he had no signs of white spots. He never even glanced off rocks to scratch. I noticed last night that he was swimming directly into the current of 2 Vortech MP40's. My assumption was that he was trying to feel better by having the brisk current do the scratching for him. This morning he was on his side and completely covered with the parasite and breathing heavily. I knew that removing him at this point would have killed him for sure. Within my morning cup of coffee and time to leave from work it was over.

I'm extremely upset. I won't be buying another Achilles. I liked this fish so much that the thought of agonizing over a new one is too much. I'm currently setting up a qt. The battle begins to get all of the other fish out of my sps tank and treat accordingly. Sometimes you can do everything right according to the book and this crap still happens.

Sometimes this hobby just sucks.

 

[Palting]

I'm sorry to her about your Achilles, Alex. I have four tangs, and would be devastated if I lose any one of them.

I've pretty much made up my mind on this subject, but I continue to remain open to change since I still consider myself a noob. So, if you don't mind, can I get some clarification?

Did you QT and do hyposalinity on the Achilles, as with all your fish, before going into the DT? The story about the 20 gal tank with the lfs just made me want to confirm this.

What was your hyposalinity level in QT?

Did you do any QT on any rock or coral that was introduced after the initial QT on set-up?

Thanks! And again, sorry for the Achilles.

 

[mistacheese]

Sorry to hear of your loss.

 

[eho72]

Well, I'm sad to report that early today my Achilles lost its battle with ich.

Sorry to hear about your loss. I had a very similar episode to what you just went through during the summer. I usually QT all my fish. Then I got an achilles tang. After debating much about to skip QT after reading the primer, I send the achilles straight to the DT. After 2 weeks, ich broke out on the achilles. I thought he could fight it on his own. Eventually he died and was covered in white spots. I thought the other fish in my tank could battle the ich on their own, but one by one, they died off due to ich. Each morning, I was removing another body. After losing half my fish, I had enough. It was a major pain, but I am glad I did it. I took out all the rocks and corals, caught my few remaining fish and put them into a hospital tank. I rebuild my tank with new sand, new aquascape, and left it fallow for 8 weeks. Learned my lesson, it's not worth it to skip QT for any fish. I am so paranoid that now I am in the process of repopulating my fish collection, I treat them all with a paraguard dip and treat them with cupramine for at least 2 weeks.

 

[Alex T.]

I'm just curious...are there any in the qt fan club who automatically treat with copper upon purchase? The reason I ask is that I really believe hyposalinity doesn't work. And especially with Achilles, I've read that a lowered specific gravity is a no-no for this surgeon as well as the clown tang...probably the two hardest surgeons to keep in captivity.

 

[evsalty]

I'm just curious...are there any in the qt fan club who automatically treat with copper upon purchase? The reason I ask is that I really believe hyposalinity doesn't work. And especially with Achilles, I've read that a lowered specific gravity is a no-no for this surgeon as well as the clown tang...probably the two hardest surgeons to keep in captivity.

I always use copper right off the bat. I believe in proactively qt'ing with meds and not just an observe and wait kinda thing. I know that is not what you did but hypo has to be at a perfect salinity to be successful and if your refractometer is slightly off or you use a hydrometer you can actually be wasting your time. I have also heard that ich can develope resistance to low salinity but that is just hearsay at this time.

 

[Palting]

I'm just curious...are there any in the qt fan club who automatically treat with copper upon purchase? The reason I ask is that I really believe hyposalinity doesn't work. And especially with Achilles, I've read that a lowered specific gravity is a no-no for this surgeon as well as the clown tang...probably the two hardest surgeons to keep in captivity.

I treat with hyposalinity all the time, everytime, for new fish regardless of appearance. It works for me. I believe the hyposalinity failures are due to the hyposalinity treatment not being done right. I treated the 4 tangs you see in my sig: A purple, tennenti, naso, and a hippo. But, I remain open to other opinions. That's why I asked you those questions in an earlier post.

 

[jeff@zina.com]

I'm just curious...are there any in the qt fan club who automatically treat with copper upon purchase?

I never automatically use anything, and I use copper as a last resort. My first job in a QT is observation. Normally, decent water and food cures any ills the new arrivals might have.

Jeff

 

[kg221]

I have never used a qt. My LFS uses copper in their water. So I just dont use their water and give the fish a few dips in R/O and then goes in the tank.

 

[Floowid]

I believe the stress of a QT can be worse for a fish than whatever they may have been harboring. The problem is, what if they have a load of ick, or a bunch of flukes?

Stress kills fish, and parasites kill fish, its a connundrum wrapped up in an enigma humping a football. Some people go out of their way to treat for every possible parasite before introducing a fish into a DT, sometimes killing the subject with the cure. I prefer to select the healthiest specimens I can, and then give them a healthy environment to live in.