will ich go away untreated?

[wakeboarder2342]

Just an update for those that may be interested,

i have had my powder blue and yellow tangs in a 30 gallon hypo at 1.010 for over a week now, they are both eating fine, with the exception of 1 night my powerfilter died and the ph dropped to 7.8 and they were breathing very heavily until i broght it back up!! all the spots on the powder blue have dissappeard now and he looks as healthy as ever. im feeing them a ton of nori as the powder blue would never eat anything else.

now for the most interesting observation, when i removed the powder blue and the yellow tangs, i had a sailfin tang that i mentioned in the above postings that had ich as bad as i have ever seen, i mean nearly totally covered. however my water quality is perfect (dispite zero water changes but thats another story!!) and he has still been eating fine with no labored breathing ect, now for the crazy part, just as the ich was getting into its worst part of the cycle, prob 5-6 days after inital signs, i was watching the tank and i have a small green chromis, i thought he was attacking the sailfin but after closer observation he was EATING THE ICH!! i watched him do this for over 20 min each time eating the ich off of the sailfin!! i know this sounds crazy but i saw it with my own eyes!! now 2 days later the sailfin shows zero signs of ich! i know with the lifecycle of the parasite it probably reached the point of dropping off but i know for 100% that the chromis was picking it off of the sailfin!!

anyway we are now about 3 weeks since i first saw signs, going on 2 weeks of quarantine which i will continue for probably another 3 weeks to be sure.

thanks for all the input, ill keep you all posted.

 

[MCary]

Sorry if I'm hijacking your post James but I have a question. I have a Hippo and a Purple Tang that have Ich. I'm going to set up a QT and hope I can catch them.

So assuming I can and I treat them and the Ich is cured, what happens when I put them back in the tank. I have 10 other fish in the tank and the transfer surely is going to stress them a little. Are they just going to get it again?

 

[Steven Pro]

James,

It is not uncommon for a variety of fishes to perform cleaning duties. We typically think of wrasses, gobies and shrimp, but damsels, porkfish, angelfish, and probably others do this as well.

MCary,

The only way to be 100% sure you get rid of the parasite is to remove and treat all the fishes. Only taking out the ones that appear infected will permit the parasite to continue to reproduce and thrive on the fish left in the display.

 

[Rondelet]

Steve, Many thanks for the reference I will go dig it out.

In our lab we routinely create master bacterial seeds of pathogens, but must do this by recovering them from dead fish effectively selective the highly virulent strains. These can then be stored frozen for future use to ensure that pathogenicy results are consistent. I'm not sure how this translates to an ectoparasite such as Cryp, but the more I read on it the more it makes sense. I'm also aware of a similar thing with a virus of salmon. However, virus, bacterial and protozoans are all very different and it may be very species or population specific. In human medicine, recent studies have shown that some viruses are known to be held in check by the immune system, often for years once immunity is acquired. When the immune system is then compromised, for whatever reason, what is found is that often the debilitating infection was not something newly acquired, but from a pathogen already present in the system. Food for though where the management of Cypt is concerned.

 

[Steven Pro]

Steve, Many thanks for the reference I will go dig it out.

You might also want to read:

Yoshinaga, T. & H.W. Dickerson. 1994. "Laboratory Propagation of Cryptocaryon irritans on a Saltwater-Adapted Poecilia Hybrid, the Black Molly" Journal of Aquatic Animal Health 6:197-201, 1994.

In the Burgess & Matthews paper from a few posts back, they were unable to maintain and infestation for longer than 34 cycles. Based on their estimate of 10 days per cycle, they did not quite reach one year. They then theorized that aging cell lines may have something to do with it. But, Yoshinaga & Dickerson were able to keep their infestations going for over two years.

 

[BPS]

Has anyone tried Polyp Lab Medic Parasite Treatment? I've heard good things about it but wanted to check if any RC members had any experienced with this for fighting Ich.

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/medicine.php?product_ID=plb-medic1

 

[maro1]

I gave in! took all of the fish out. QT'd, copper and now all fish are back in display parasite free and happy.

Maro1:rollface:

 

[currentking]

i tried kick ich in my 65g. I have not had a proble for over 2 years, now I put a powder blue in the tank and waalaaa, now It has ich. it had about 30 dots on him before kick ich and now after kick ich it has about 80. No other fish have visible signs. Im not sure what to do now. I have raised my temp to 84 and put garlic in the tank and its stil there, now all I do is pray to the fish gods.

 

[maro1]

Current king

The fish Gods won't anwser! There trusting you will QT all the fish and treat them properly. You will be farther ahead if you just do it.

Maro1:rollface:

 

[Zoom]

My large Emperor that i have for almost four years now it started to eat all my corals in my reef tank . About four weeks a go i saw him sleeping in the corner of the tank so i use my large net and got him out and in to my FOWLR tank hi went.
I have two large fish in that tank so one more fish was no problem .
Now this tank had no fish in this tank for three + years .
I put the angel in there no problem at all for a week no fighting no nothing everyone is eating and having a good time .
Now the week two i saw some spots not many but i know from before the fish was already infected with ick.
Now week five i install a 30W UV and feeding garlic every time i feed them, it is a 8" Clown trigger and 9" Tusk and the Emperor in there so far don't look good , today the Angel did not eat .
I'm just ride it out this way till the parasites come off the fish and see the outcome, i have a back up plan but i will not use it till is no other way ..
Ps, it was no fish but some new coral put in the reef tank about a month a go no other fish got the ick in the reef tank.

 

[mavgi]

Zoom


what type of food you feed your fish ?

 

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9965608#post9965608 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
Zoom


what type of food you feed your fish ?

I feed mostly large Formula one and two marine large pellets now so i can soak the garlic in to the food, but i usually feed the fish frozen formulas, pellets, dry marine green algae and flake foods.

 

[mavgi]

i have 16 fish in my 120 gallon tank include 4 angle (imperator , queen ,Rock Beauty , flame ) when i put them in the tank after 3 days they eat like my other fish without any problem (and they eat like pigs).

i have also QT and stop to quarantine fish i put in the tank few month ago red margine fairy wrasse with ich (i don't suggest it to no one i take my risk...) and after 2 week the fish was free of ick till now (maybe it's exist and i don't argue about that but it's fact in my tak) .

when i add my queen angle in the tank my yellow tang was chasing him and the fish got "Lymphocystis" all over his body (my water parameter in the tank perfect) i also take the risk here and didn't quarantine the fish as you know there's no medication to treat it and it's can take some month till the fish will (if he will make it) cure from that , it's take 2 week to the fish to be total clean from it after the chasing gone.

i decide not to quarantine the fish because he was big and i didn't believe in my small tank he will make it , i know that i take a big risk also my QT still run from the day first till now but i find out that the food i make and the way i feed help to keep my fish healty (and it's a lot fish for this tank size) and they cure quick , i also use vitamine and i know that some ppl said it's just mix stuff but any fish i put in my system get grow and healty .

here is how i make my fish food :
one bag of Formula one
one bag of angel formula
one bag of mysis shrimp
one bag of silverside
one bag of frozen clam
one bag of krill

i mix all together in mixer and make it like 1mm size grain i add to it spectrum thera formula , spectrum marine formula , blue lagon anti - parasite formula (i am not sure if this formula real work but i add it) .

now the vitamine part i add to all this mixing :

2 oz vita chem
1 oz zoecon
1 oz selcon
2 oz garlic extreme
2 oz marine c

i mix all together and put this mixin food in 5 or 6 small ziplock bag and freeze it for 24 hour , after that i have food for one month and i feed very heavy 2 time a day , i also put on 2 clip every day 6 piece of different seaweeds sock with vitamine.

i know it's a lot but i hear that a lot of ppl have problem to feed angle fish and in my system they eat like crazy , i also vizit a RC member at home and he have problem to feed his fish i give him piece from my food (3" square ) and he told me that his fish love the food and eat it quick i am still not quarantine fish and week ago i put the rock beauty in my tank after 2 days the fish start to eat like a pig .

i know that a lot of ppl will not agree with that and they will tell me "things" that i know and read a lot.... but in the past when i did quarantine fish with ich i have success and lose to now it's about 7 month when i changed the food and feeding type i don't have any problem with my fish the healty and grow very quick , the only problem i will have now to change them because the size of the tank will be to small for them .

 

[Zoom]

mavgi

mavgi

My fish is not new i have all this fish over three years i feed my fish very much one of my freezer shelf is full of fish food .
This fish was in my care from a little babes .
I have not put any fish in my tanks for many years .
I do quarantine always so where this Ick come from this fish got Ick from the stress of moving the Emperor from the reef to the FOWLR tank it was not harass or nipped on from the other fish so why Ick now? i do have mix different type of food together and feed to the fish but i can not do that to my reef with SPS is just to much nutrients .
This morning the Angel eat some food the Trigger eat a big shrimp the tusk never stop eating yet , i think if i don't get panicky and live things along the fish will fight this one on there own .....I hope.

 

[mavgi]

yes they will fight this one on there own , and if he was infect already with ich the strees will show sign of ich as you said and maybe some of the water that was on the new coral was transfer with ich to the system ,i know you have a lot of experience and you know what to do and i am very interesting to know if the fish cure from that or if you treat him , if he will cure from that alone then good feeding help him to fight against the ich . some ppl said the UV help them to cure ich and some said it's never help. in the past years i was test a low flow with uv and i saw "reduce" of ich in the system and even some fish was total cure but some still have it , because of that i can't said it is kill the ich in 100% , when i changed the fedding way it's total gone .

 

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9968047#post9968047 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
yes they will fight this one on there own , and if he was infect already with ich the strees will show sign of ich as you said and maybe some of the water that was on the new coral was transfer with ich to the system ,i know you have a lot of experience and you know what to do and i am very interesting to know if the fish cure from that or if you treat him , if he will cure from that alone then good feeding help him to fight against the ich . some ppl said the UV help them to cure ich and some said it's never help. in the past years i was test a low flow with uv and i saw "reduce" of ich in the system and even some fish was total cure but some still have it , because of that i can't said it is kill the ich in 100% , when i changed the fedding way it's total gone .

What is so strange the fish on the reef have no ick at all that is where all the corals when in to .
So I may said my reef tank always had ick but the fish was immune to it but when I move the Angel the stress from moving the fish to a different tank , the parasites take over the tank/fish.
The one thing i notice from before is many times if I take the fish out of the tank for treatment in a different tank when they had the parasites on them most of the time the fish will die .
Now if the UV and garlic I put in the tank help some, the fish eventually will get immune to the ICK parasites ..I hope. I think this is the fourth parasite cycle so the parasites should start to get weak soon .
I let you know the outcome of it all .

 

[heuerfan]

Zoom- Two months ago i lossed some of my favorite fish to secondary bacterial infections which started because of ich. I was unable to take them out and QT so i decided to feed them well, garlic, selcon, etc... But i failed to keep water quality prestine, and because of this i believe this is the reason why they weren't able to fight off the ich on their own.

I did not add any new fish until a month ago and as soon as i did, that fish was covered with ich big time! So i decided to install a 25 watt UV on my 125 gallon tank and make sure i kept up with my water quality. That fish is still around as of today with no signs of ich. I'm sure the ich is still present but with the addition of the UV and maintaining water quality i think is why its still alive.

Water quaility is so important, sadly i wish i realized this when i first got the out break, it was a very tough loss for me.

Good luck with your imperator i'm sure he will pull thru in your FOWLR.

-Steven

 

[Zoom]

heuerfan

heuerfan

I know water quality is very important I have my FOWLR tank set up just like reef tank I have a 851 Deltec skimmer ozone ad Now UV I do monthly water changes and I siphoned the BB clean very often it is not much more I can do I kept everything in check I test the tank water with high tech equipment so water quality is there.
I even have a ATO system so the salinity dos not very at all in this tank . But they still got ICK .

 

[heuerfan]

Re: heuerfan

Re: heuerfan

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9969536#post9969536 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zoom
I know water quality is very important I have my FOWLR tank set up just like reef tank I have a 851 Deltec skimmer ozone ad Now UV I do monthly water changes ad siphoned the BB clean often it is not much more I can do I kept everything in check I test the tank
water with high tech equipment so water quality is there.
I even have a ATO system so the salinity do not very at all on that tank . But they still got ICK .

Okay good luck. Ich is defintely a pain in the butt. Would you consider doing hypo on your FOWLR if the garlic and uv don't help?

 

[Zoom]

Re: Re: heuerfan

Re: Re: heuerfan

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9969573#post9969573 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by heuerfan
Okay good luck. Ich is defintely a pain in the butt. Would you consider doing hypo on your FOWLR if the garlic and uv don't help?

That will kill the live rock and with all the die off the ammonia will kill the fish in no time. I try this about four years a go in my quarantine tank ......no good.
If UV and garlic don't work i will get the fish out of the tank and treated in a different tank.