Worms, stars, cucumbers

[Osaka-san]

I've been thinking about a couple of items I seen on severals web sites. Have any of you experience with:

1.) Xmas tree worms? Looks like a cool addition. OK w/ angels?

2.) Tiger sea cucumber - a sand eater/clean up crew member. An odd little guy. Might be interesting - toxic if injured or dead? Again, will my angels pick on it?

3.) Starfish - either the Linckia type or the Fromia. Comments?

I have a 70 gal mixed reef, mostly softies, a few LPS and one or two SPS. Not really fully populated yet - only 7 months old. I have 70 lb LR, remora skimmer, fluval 305 canister filter w/ LR & GFP. 2x150 AQI MHs, + 4x actinic T-5s, Circulation is via a #4, #3, and #1 korilla. Fish include a lemon peel and a flame angel, a pair of Ocellaris clowns, and a malanaurus wrasse. The tank isn't drilled and I do not have a sump or refugium - I am considering a turf algae filter and have started to acquire the necessary parts. Oh yea - I do not have a chiller and live in a very warm region. My tank temps peak at 82 or so in the summer and may vary 4 or 5 degrees or more over the course of the day.

 

[3steele]

I really like the fromia stars just because they look different. I think that the Xmas tree worms would be ok with your angel just make sure and keep a close eye at first. Now the cucumber I would not know but I would think that the angel may pick at it but not sure watch him to the only concern with him is the flow. It says that things like that are safe with the korillas I would still watch out and make sure there is not to much flow and it blow him around and injure him. If you get them update us!

 

[finsurgeon]

X-mas worms no problem with "reef safe" angels. Butterflies may eat them, along with other decorative worms. Tiger tail cucumber stays low, not going to climb the rocks or wall to get into a power-head, and never seen any of my fish pick on them(started with 1 2 years ago, split into 2 7 or 8 months ago). I don't think they are particularly toxic. As far as fromias and linkias, I think you'll find that you're still a bit early in the process, and that either kind will die within 3 - 4 weeks, and that tank size is on the small side for them. I'd recommend a serpent star or 2, or especially the "elegant brittle star" = ophiomastix variabilis, since it likes to live on top of the rocks and is always visible, as well as easy to feed if you want to do so. http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ages?q=ophiomastix+variabilis&hl=en&sa=N&um=1

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Do not get a linkia or fromia star. They are pretty much doomed in all but very large and well established tanks, and even then it is pretty much a big gamble as to whether they'll survive. No one knows what exactly they eat. They won't eat anything you try to give them. The best bet would be to have a large tank full of very diverse live rock from an area near where they're collected. Even then, it's quite possible that they would go through their food supply and then starve.

In reality, there is no good starfish for a reef tank, except perhaps "micro stars." All the starfish you find for sale are either coral eaters, likely to die from starvation, or, in the case of brittle and serpent stars, have voracious appetites and will wipe out the micro-fauna in all but the largest tanks.

As far as cucumbers go, they're also IMO not the greatest choice in general. The sand-sifting cucumbers will clear out your sandbed of beneficial micro-fauna. And, honestly, they're typically boring little lumps that are most often buried in the sand. Then, you have the filter-feeding cucumbers. These are the guys that are known to release toxins when stressed or upon dying. They're more interesting with their colorful patterns and cool feeding "tentacles." But, they need supplemental feeding with phyto and perhaps rotifers or some other small zooplankton. Plus, in your case, it is quite possible that your angels will pick on them, possibly resulting in disaster.

 

[finsurgeon]

Reiterating what I said before, the tiger-tail cucumber never buries itself in sand, nor do the pink/black sand eaters. None of my angels have ever picked at any of my cucumbers (emperor, flame, coral beauty, pygmy angels vs. above 2 cucs as well as the pink filter feeder (pentaca anceps) and the little yellow filter feeders) I'd say yes to the tiger-tail and yes to the X-mas worms, and yes to a serpent star or 2, but repeat the warnings on the linkias and the fromias. aninjaatemyshoe may be pretty pessimistic, but he's absolutely correct on the part about the diet of the ones you like best, as well as the certainty of their fate.

 

[Ken_wied]

Ive had a sea apple for a year, and never had a problem. It eats and poops all without special feeding. It might be because I am feeding Rods and it has all the necessary stuff in it already. Mine was also in a tank with a clown trigger, dogface puffer and lion fish and never had a problem at all. Just decided he would look cooler in a reef setting.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15538987#post15538987 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ken_wied
Ive had a sea apple for a year, and never had a problem. It eats and poops all without special feeding. It might be because I am feeding Rods and it has all the necessary stuff in it already. Mine was also in a tank with a clown trigger, dogface puffer and lion fish and never had a problem at all. Just decided he would look cooler in a reef setting.

Just because you're doing all the wrong things and you're getting away with it doesn't mean that it's a good idea. It's like saying "I drive drunk all the time and never get in an accident." You've taken a big risk there and somehow have gotten away with it. There are plenty of stories out there with people doing things half as risky with sea apples and paying big for it.