Yoccm's 300G DD In Wall Build
- Thread starter yoccm
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yoccm
New member
One last project for the weekend ... screen covers for top of tank.
Used the 1/4" clear screen from Bulk Reef Supply - great stuff!!!
Built frames from stock at Home Depot
And spline and tools
Finished product ... It worked out well. Fits nicely on top of the tank
Had fun this weekend - felt like I made some progress but still a looong way to go!!!!:bounce1::bounce1::bounce1:
Used the 1/4" clear screen from Bulk Reef Supply - great stuff!!!
Built frames from stock at Home Depot
And spline and tools
Finished product ... It worked out well. Fits nicely on top of the tank
Had fun this weekend - felt like I made some progress but still a looong way to go!!!!:bounce1::bounce1::bounce1:
yoccm
New member
No - I'm really struggling with that one. I keep flopping between using 2 of the 6x80W 60" ATI pms or 6 of the AI LEDs.
One the one hand the pm units have shown to be tried and true performers and the 12 bulb color choices can make for great coloration. The down side is the lack of control .. Sunrise/sunset, lunar, etc and the lack of shimmer - I really like the shimmer effect.
On the other hand, the LEDs have the control and shimmer but are expensive and still a bit of an emerging technology. Everything I have seen shows people getting great PAR and good coloration and growth witLh LEDs but not sure it's worth paying twice as much for!!
The 36" width has definitely effected my decision ...the cost of either lighting choice went way up when I decided to go 36" vs 30". But I love the extra depth so ultimately glad I did it.
Any opinions on the lighting choices would be welcome. Probably the hardest equipment decision I have ... After debating forever on which tank to get.
yoccm
New member
Thanks James. I have heard great things about the AI fixtures but to your point i am looking at about $3,200 to outfit my tank. That's about twice what the tank itself cost :eek1:
Having said that (and here's where the addiction starts talking) lighting is one of if not the most important pieces of equipment so I don't want to skimp or be left feeling coulda shoulda.
Right now I would say I am leaning toward the LEDs ... Now I just have to figure out how to break it to my wife :fun2:
d3hree
New member
I worked out some lighting for a fellow reefer who was considering the t5 vs LED argument. Based on a four foot tank the choice was an ATI 6 tube tf unit or a pacific sun LED unit.
Accounting for bulb replacement and running costs it worked out that it would take 7 years for the LED unit to start paying for itself because of the elevated start up cost.
I dont know about you but i dont know many reefers who have stuck with the same lighting configuration for 7 years...or tank for that matter. We are a fickle bunch and are constantly changing how our tanks are lit and run not to mention the size of the tank.
There are a few LED units that are on the market here in the UK that run over 200w and cost over £2000. The lack of fall-off from the lights means on larger tanks you need a good few units so the start up cost is high and the savings on electricty are not massive.
Where we differ slightly in the UK is that we are not as concerned as some of you with the heat issues of other lighting. At the peak of our summer it is still probably considered "chilly" to most of you.
I would suggest you work out the cost difference between the lights and how many years it will take you to re-coup that money and then be honest with yourself, if it takes 3 years to recoup that money can you see yourself sticking with the LEDs for 3 years?..watching all the new LED lights come on the market that are more efficient, more controllable.
Surely higher kelvin plasma's are not too far off, as soon as a 14k/20k controllable plasma unit hits the market if you are anything like me you will drop your LED units like hot coals.
IMO lighting is a very important aspect of our hobby and one that shouldnt be taken lightly but because it is so important you need to consider the long term bigger picture.
BTW I am the guy who spent £1000/$1500 ish on aquarays ( do you have them in USA?) when they first hit the market 4 years or so ago and ditched them after 4 weeks for T5s because the were so poor. I still have them in the garage somewhere.
Accounting for bulb replacement and running costs it worked out that it would take 7 years for the LED unit to start paying for itself because of the elevated start up cost.
I dont know about you but i dont know many reefers who have stuck with the same lighting configuration for 7 years...or tank for that matter. We are a fickle bunch and are constantly changing how our tanks are lit and run not to mention the size of the tank.
There are a few LED units that are on the market here in the UK that run over 200w and cost over £2000. The lack of fall-off from the lights means on larger tanks you need a good few units so the start up cost is high and the savings on electricty are not massive.
Where we differ slightly in the UK is that we are not as concerned as some of you with the heat issues of other lighting. At the peak of our summer it is still probably considered "chilly" to most of you.
I would suggest you work out the cost difference between the lights and how many years it will take you to re-coup that money and then be honest with yourself, if it takes 3 years to recoup that money can you see yourself sticking with the LEDs for 3 years?..watching all the new LED lights come on the market that are more efficient, more controllable.
Surely higher kelvin plasma's are not too far off, as soon as a 14k/20k controllable plasma unit hits the market if you are anything like me you will drop your LED units like hot coals.
IMO lighting is a very important aspect of our hobby and one that shouldnt be taken lightly but because it is so important you need to consider the long term bigger picture.
BTW I am the guy who spent £1000/$1500 ish on aquarays ( do you have them in USA?) when they first hit the market 4 years or so ago and ditched them after 4 weeks for T5s because the were so poor. I still have them in the garage somewhere.
d3hree
New member
I should add that the LEDs on BMCO's tank have made me sit up and pay attention. The unit compared to the 400w MH is extremely impressive. So much so that I emailed the UK distributer ( luckily he is a friend ) to enquire about purchasing 8 units for my tank.
I have 6 coral vue ballasts and lumenarc reflectors sat in boxes unused and my wife will kill me dead if I swap the lights without ever having used the ones already purchased. Like I said we are a fickle bunch.
I have 6 coral vue ballasts and lumenarc reflectors sat in boxes unused and my wife will kill me dead if I swap the lights without ever having used the ones already purchased. Like I said we are a fickle bunch.
JagerEinheit
New member
well if you want all out salt protection etc you could grab por-15. its what is painted on steel and car bodies to prevent rust. its smelly, but will guarantee years of resilience in the build.
if you are not as concerned I would look at a good outdoor paint or epoxy that can be washed off easily. that should hold up well and be easier to repaint down the road. (por 15 is best applied in a well ventilated area.)
and to the poster above plasma controllable fixtures are out. here is a link (edit seems RC doesnt like them, search for seashine by straylight)
also a few other stories/ vids of other options that dim to get to 20k
fixture is 900-1000 dollars
http://************.com/2010/01/26/commercially-lifi-plasma-light-hobbyists-launching/
if you are not as concerned I would look at a good outdoor paint or epoxy that can be washed off easily. that should hold up well and be easier to repaint down the road. (por 15 is best applied in a well ventilated area.)
and to the poster above plasma controllable fixtures are out. here is a link (edit seems RC doesnt like them, search for seashine by straylight)
also a few other stories/ vids of other options that dim to get to 20k
fixture is 900-1000 dollars
http://************.com/2010/01/26/commercially-lifi-plasma-light-hobbyists-launching/
Last edited:
leslie hempel
Member
looking good keep it up...
yoccm
New member
Thanks for the thoughts d3hree - I did some rough math in my head as well and between bulb replacement and electricity savings it is still a pretty long payoff comparing the LEDs to the T5s ... so I don't see a compelling reason from a cost savings perspective. I know I have ruled out MH due to the significant cost of electriity to run them and frankly I am a bit daunted by the DIY aspect of wiring and hanging a home made MH/T5/LED moonlight set up.
As for heat, I am in Michigan which is probably much like the weather you have in the UK. An example of that is even though it is almost April, the low temp last night was in the teens!!!! We will get a very few days over 90 in the summer but typically never get out of the 80s. Since the tank is in the basement and we have adequate central AC the heat is not a significant concern to me.
Your other point about the rapidly changing technology for LED is probably the one that gives me the most pause in going with them right now. I look at how significant the changes have been in the AI modules from Gen 1 to now ... broader color choices with the royal blue and more controllable. I do think they will continue to refine the color spectrum choices making them much more consistent with the color choices available in T5s and I do expect the cost to continue to drop. It all comes down to when to enter the market ... much like computers and big screen TVs - as soon as you buy something it is instantly obsolete and the bigger, better is cheaper than what you just paid big $$$ for. At some point you have to make the leap.
As for the aquarays - I had never heard of them but just found a US supplier on-line. They look like a pretty powerful LED but look like small strip units .. only 5 leds per unit? Would take alot to cover a 72"x36" tank!!
yoccm
New member
Just checked out bmco's build thread ... WOW, awesome tank!!! I saw where he mentioned he was considering a switch to LED but he did not mention the fixtures he was looking to run .... do you know what he is going to be using???
yoccm
New member
Thanks for the advice on the paint. Since the stand is sitting in my basement about 5 feet from two furnaces and two hot water heaters I am trying to stay away from high fume/flammable options ... as you can imagine!!:blown:
There is a window right next to the stand that I can put a fan in .. the epoxy is definitely a bit smelly (we just had our garage floor done with it) but from what I read on the label the fumes are not highly flameable.
As to the plasma fixtures ... I saw the AI plasma unit that Cherry Corals was testing. Definitely looks a future contender but still very early in it's development. Way too cutting edge for me. :spin3:
yoccm
New member
Thanks - it has been fun so far. And I love your signature quote ... I am definitely trying to be patient and take it slow. Thanks for stopping by and checking out the build.
cubsare1
New member
I was talking with Aquarium specialty and he was talking about the Sunbrite led tubes. It's like a t5 fixture that you plug a row of leds into, there are 11 different led color choices you can use and all 8 rows have their own timer. Vivid Aquariums started using them in their store.
Just another option to confuse me more
Just another option to confuse me more
d3hree
New member
Sorry I meant a true 14k/20k plasma. There are units out there running at 6500k ish that can be dimmed to raise the kelvin temp but personally I would only use them over a frag tank or refugium and not my display. The 6500k temp is great for growth but too yellow for my liking.
The money I would save in electricity would be ploughed back into actinic lighting.
IMO I couldnt justify spending any money on a plasma light and then turning it down ( reducing PAR ) to make the colour acceptable.
Give me a 14k plasma that doesnt need dialling down and i will get out my credit card.
d3hree
New member
He used orphek units with 90 degree optics. Mr wilson also mentions them in Peter's thread recently.
They can be had with 120deg optics also for shallower tanks or lower mounting.
The best part about them for me, is the full spectrum white diode they have created. Rather than use some LED from another manufacturer they have had one built to their spec and it has peaks right down in the oranges and reds, so far more PAR/PUR whichever you want to measure. It also means the colour rendition index is higher... In that colours are represented closer to how they should be with the whites rather than not really being able to display things like yellows and reds properly.
yoccm
New member
I was talking with Aquarium specialty and he was talking about the Sunbrite led tubes. It's like a t5 fixture that you plug a row of leds into, there are 11 different led color choices you can use and all 8 rows have their own timer. Vivid Aquariums started using them in their store.
Just another option to confuse me more
You guys both give examples of what I was saying earlier ... the LED technology continues to change so quickly it is hard to know when to jump on board. Seems like it is getting closer and closer to getting to the full color spectrum to make them the "full package". Now if the price would just start to come down!!!
Cubesare1 - it is so funny you mention the Sunbrite products. The guy from my LFS talked about a demo they did for him last Friday just before he came to drop off my tank. He said the different color options looked great and the guy had a little hand held remote that let him quickly dial in different options between 6K and 20K color on the units. I did some quick research - sounds like the first gen product they came out with several years ago wasn't that great but that people are giving positive reviews to these new units. Looks like you can buy a fixture and then mix the different spectrum bulbs like a T5 fixture would work. I would love to see one in person and see how it looks or get feedback from someone on RC who may be using them.
prop-frags
SPS Slave
Great progress Chris! Looks like you had a very busy weekend too... :hammer:
JagerEinheit
New member
I would keep an eye on things, I have heard that changing the gas combinations changes the color temp to a higher kelvin. and hat luxim is working on getting that adjusted right. something else to consider 100% on the fixture seems to be way too high for corals, so dimming the fixture is simialr to dimming leds to save even more power. whether that is just market speak, IDK, but I am in the same boat with choosing fixtures, I do not want to go led only to find i have gotten the wrong color mix, or need more. Plasma bulbs lasting so long is also tempting.
that being said the quality/quantity of light could be adjusted with a cel film like they use in stage/theatre lighting, you lose a little light, but you can shift to innumerable colors, they are designed for much higher heat then the plasmas "supposedly" put out.
but I imagine the real test will be when they come down in cost, I do like the yellower tanks a bit more then blue as well, so they seem ok to me, but then again I love the way my tank looks in direct sunlight... abet not the algae it grows due to it. I will not argue with the beauty of some of the 14 or 20k lit systems though. they have incredible pop to them when the lights hit anything that fluoresces
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