Yoccm's 300G DD In Wall Build

[yoccm]

Great progress Chris! Looks like you had a very busy weekend too... :hammer:

Thanks Mike - yeah busy but fun. One of the parts of it is the interest my 17 year old son has in this whole process. We spent pretty much the whole weekend together working on the stand. Not very often anymore that my 17 y/ o finds hanging with the old man all weekend his idea of a good time!!!

BTW - I checked out your aquascaping work ... Looks great! Glad to see the tank coming back together for you so nicely.

 

[yoccm]

I would keep an eye on things, I have heard that changing the gas combinations changes the color temp to a higher kelvin. and hat luxim is working on getting that adjusted right. something else to consider 100% on the fixture seems to be way too high for corals, so dimming the fixture is simialr to dimming leds to save even more power. whether that is just market speak, IDK, but I am in the same boat with choosing fixtures, I do not want to go led only to find i have gotten the wrong color mix, or need more. Plasma bulbs lasting so long is also tempting.

that being said the quality/quantity of light could be adjusted with a cel film like they use in stage/theatre lighting, you lose a little light, but you can shift to innumerable colors, they are designed for much higher heat then the plasmas "supposedly" put out.

but I imagine the real test will be when they come down in cost, I do like the yellower tanks a bit more then blue as well, so they seem ok to me, but then again I love the way my tank looks in direct sunlight... abet not the algae it grows due to it. I will not argue with the beauty of some of the 14 or 20k lit systems though. they have incredible pop to them when the lights hit anything that fluoresces

I am having trouble committing to LEDs ... Plasma is way to cutting edge for me!! Just not a leading edge/bleeding edge kinda guy when it comes to this stuff

 

[AndoCleophus]

very nice build will be going along the thread...interested to here about the AI leds

 

[d3hree]

I am having trouble committing to LEDs ... Plasma is way to cutting edge for me!! Just not a leading edge/bleeding edge kinda guy when it comes to this stuff

IMO you cant beat the tried and tested lighting of MH with t5s. I got all excited about the orphek units but still worked it out that they would take 8 years to pay for themselves and thats with halving the electricity cost of my proposed mh lighting config.

There is certainly a place for LEDs in our hobby but I think the units themselves need to drastically drop in price before they become a viable option for larger tanks, or the optics need to be developed so you can cover a wider area with one unit than you can currently.

 

[yoccm]

IMO you cant beat the tried and tested lighting of MH with t5s. I got all excited about the orphek units but still worked it out that they would take 8 years to pay for themselves and thats with halving the electricity cost of my proposed mh lighting config.

There is certainly a place for LEDs in our hobby but I think the units themselves need to drastically drop in price before they become a viable option for larger tanks, or the optics need to be developed so you can cover a wider area with one unit than you can currently.

I agree with your logic - I think the tipping point for me is the controllability of the LEDs. To get dimmable T5s in the US is as expensive as the AI LEDs and then when you throw in the added cost of bulbs and electricity the LEDs look better to me. Dimmable/Controllable is big on my list and ultimately helps me rationalize the added cost.

BTW - I really appriciate a forum like RC that gives me the chance to bounce stuff like this off other people who are so willing to share their views and experiences - it definitely helps!!!

 

[yoccm]

very nice build will be going along the thread...interested to here about the AI leds

Thanks Ando - the word on the street is these are like 4 - 6 weeks on backorder and I haven't even got on the wait list yet. I know I am way farther out than that before I need them but still anxious to get the order placed and get my hands on them!!!

 

[yoccm]

UPDATE:

Actually not much to update :sad1: just more woodwork and paint :sad2: Working on building out the bottom of the stand to house the sump.

 

[launchnukes]

I just went through the mental lighting battle myself. The 36" depth makes it difficult. I couldn't justify spending the money for LEDs right now, it seems I'd need a million to properly light the tank. I came to the same conclusion with t5s, to properly light a 27" tall tank it would use just as much power as mh/t5 setup but have a ton more bulbs, reflectors, etc to deal with. So I've decided on th tried an true mh/t5 Setup. I figure my MHs will only be on for 6 or so hours a day anyway. Good luck with your decision

 

[yoccm]

I just went through the mental lighting battle myself. The 36" depth makes it difficult. I couldn't justify spending the money for LEDs right now, it seems I'd need a million to properly light the tank. I came to the same conclusion with t5s, to properly light a 27" tall tank it would use just as much power as mh/t5 setup but have a ton more bulbs, reflectors, etc to deal with. So I've decided on th tried an true mh/t5 Setup. I figure my MHs will only be on for 6 or so hours a day anyway. Good luck with your decision

Thanks for the input. Mind if I ask what type of setup you are planning? Lumen Brites? Minis? Type of Ballasts? 250W or 400W or selectable? HQI or Electronic? Radium bulbs or others?

And are you building your own rack?

As you can probably tell I actually thought long and hard about going MH/T5 :rollface:but am not great with electrical DIY.

I have been following your build ... maybe your solution will inspire me to rethink my plan

I am still playing with the T5 option. Since I am in wall and the fixture is hidden I have thought about the factory 2nd ATI PMs that ReefGeek carries. 2 60" 6X80W units should do it? George from ReefGeek quoted me $750/fixture including bulbs or $1,500 total. So less than half the price of the 6 unit AI fixture. But to your point I would be replacing 12 T5 bulbs on a regular basis.

 

[yoccm]

O.K. - Launchnukes got me thinkin. I just did a quick shopping list on what it would take to build a MH/T5 kit for my tank:

3 Lumenmax reflectors $480
3 Lumatek Multi Watt 250W/400W dimmable ballasts $450
60" 4x80W Miro-4 T5 High-Output Retrofit Kit w/Bulbs $350
3 Radium Bulbs or other 250W bulbs $150

Total $1,330

This is without the cost of building the frame and additional wiring costs and timers to control units. And while I might tweak the list the cost is probably $1,250 - $1,500

So...............seems like no real savings compared to 2 60" ATI PM units with more heat output and electricity costs

I guess it puts me right back to deciding between T5 and LEDs

Any thoughts?????

 

[prop-frags]

For your custom light rack, you might want to check out these sites:

EZTube
Esto Connectors


Here's a couple of quick links to what the kit looked like and how we mounted it inside our canopy:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16739366&postcount=122

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16758416&postcount=125

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16820648&postcount=141

I don't remember the exact cost, but less than $150 and worth every penny!

 

[yoccm]

Thanks Mike - I have seen these used on several nice builds here ... Drummereef's build for instance and they do look like they get the job done nicely.

To your point of $150 the rack would put my total around $1,500. So about the same cost as the 2 ATI PM units and I am dealing with more heat issues and higher electrical costs. So I still think I would go T5s vs MH/T5 combo then left whether to bite the bullet and pay double that for the LEDs.

Arrrgh!! Decisions, decisions.... And at the end of the day this ends up being such a personal decision. I will have to think about it more ......and as always I welcome all of your thoughts/comments!! And thanks for the advice so far.

 

[cubsare1]

Thanks Mike - I have seen these used on several nice builds here ... Drummereef's build for instance and they do look like they get the job done nicely.

To your point of $150 the rack would put my total around $1,500. So about the same cost as the 2 ATI PM units and I am dealing with more heat issues and higher electrical costs. So I still think I would go T5s vs MH/T5 combo then left whether to bite the bullet and pay double that for the LEDs.

Arrrgh!! Decisions, decisions.... And at the end of the day this ends up being such a personal decision. I will have to think about it more ......and as always I welcome all of your thoughts/comments!! And thanks for the advice so far.

This is the one thing that has held me up from ordering the tank. I have pretty much ruled out Leds for the start up cost, same with plasma lights. I have 2 250w halides with lumen arc reflectors and 2 36" 6 bulb t5's already here. Just trying to figure out my best option

 

[yoccm]

This is the one thing that has held me up from ordering the tank. I have pretty much ruled out Leds for the start up cost, same with plasma lights. I have 2 250w halides with lumen arc reflectors and 2 36" 6 bulb t5's already here. Just trying to figure out my best option

The width of the tank does pose some challenges especially with lighting but I gotta tell ya .... it is an awesome tank. The dimensions are really sweet. I thought I had a good sense of it when I was taping it off on the floor but once I got my hands on it and saw the dimensions I am really pleased with it. I think the depth of viewing and the aquascaping choices will outweigh the lighting issues in the long run .... but easy for me to say ... I'm still the guy with all the angst about how to light the @#$@ thing!!!:worried:

 

[cubsare1]

I know what your saying, since looking into buying the tank I've read about every light possible :hmm3: I finally heard back from Marineland about the stand size, now I will need to look at building my own stand :worried:. So thank you for keeping this thread updated and helping me along the way :beer:

 

[yoccm]

I know what your saying, since looking into buying the tank I've read about every light possible :hmm3: I finally heard back from Marineland about the stand size, now I will need to look at building my own stand :worried:. So thank you for keeping this thread updated and helping me along the way :beer:

Wow - I'm having deja'vu all over again . I had the same issues - I was convinced I was going with a smaller tank where lighting and stand options were both pretty basic. Once I decided on the big tank my first big obstacle was the stand and my continuing struggle is the lighting.

Glad you are finding the thread helpful and I hope it continues to be so. I got lucky in the fact that I had a carpenter in here working on the basement who was able to build the stand for me but as you have seen here I still had to beef up his work. The following thread was hugely helpful to me in working thru it ... as i've mentioned here I am slightly handy but was a bit daunted by the idea of doing the stand from scratch.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1169964

There is a lot of info here but worth reviewing before starting a DIY stand project

 

[willj313]

Same her on lighting i just ordered a 320 96x30x26 don't know what lights to get

 

[yoccm]

Same her on lighting i just ordered a 320 96x30x26 don't know what lights to get

Welcome to the club :fun4:

If you surf the large tank forum you will see a lot of great examples where people have built great DIY lighting racks with MH/T5 combos that look great and have shown great success. Like launchnuke said above ... It is a "tried and true" method.

Are you leaning toward one type of lighting or another? Your depth of 30" helps but the 96" length can cause similar challenges. Not to mention any limitations you may have if you are using a canopy.

There are a ton of resources on this site that give you some good ideas and inspiration. Good luck and update me on your decisions as you go.

 

[d3hree]

I think it is good that you are deliberating so much on your lights. Eventually when you decide which ever way you go it will be a decision you are happy with. In the past in this hobby I have made many rash decisions and then regretted them instantly.

One element regarding the lighting that hasnt been covered is how the different lights look...is that something that could sway you one way or another?

LED lights make the tank look very different than MH t5 combo do you like the look of a tank lit with LED?
The refractive caustics or "shimmer" are usually a lot more intense and tighter with LEDS than they are with MH...is this something you like?
There are usually more dark/shadow areas in a tank that is lit with LEDS, more contrast.

I think with the pros and cons of both lighting systems as they are maybe it will come down to a simple decision of which do you prefer the look of?, regardless of cost, heat issues, running costs etc etc, which do you prefer visually?

 

[yoccm]

I think it is good that you are deliberating so much on your lights. Eventually when you decide which ever way you go it will be a decision you are happy with. In the past in this hobby I have made many rash decisions and then regretted them instantly.

One element regarding the lighting that hasnt been covered is how the different lights look...is that something that could sway you one way or another?

LED lights make the tank look very different than MH t5 combo do you like the look of a tank lit with LED?
The refractive caustics or "shimmer" are usually a lot more intense and tighter with LEDS than they are with MH...is this something you like?
There are usually more dark/shadow areas in a tank that is lit with LEDS, more contrast.

I think with the pros and cons of both lighting systems as they are maybe it will come down to a simple decision of which do you prefer the look of?, regardless of cost, heat issues, running costs etc etc, which do you prefer visually?

Thanks D3 I am trying to practice patience .. Not always easy for me. I totally agree with you about the appearance being important to the decision. I really spent a lot of time deliberating on which tank to get ... Pretty important decision. Lighting and skimmer selection seem like the next two big decisions relative to building the solid foundation for a successful tank. I have not seen LED lighting in person on a tank the size I am setting up but have liked the look on smaller tanks I have seen lit with LEDs. While the shimmer is more concentrated than MH I still like the look. The lack of shimmer is what puts me off the T5 option the most. The T5s have great color choices and with 12 bulbs to mix and match I know I could get some stunning colors from them.

Totally personal opinion but I think I like the MH look the least. I think I am more of a blue spectrum guy and the MH look too washed out for me.

The other big ? Is the lights ability to actually create an environment where the corals can grow and thrive. Back to the concern that the LED option isn't fully baked yet or at least not as "tried and true" as MH and T5s.

If I wanted To play it safe my gut tells me go T5 but I am having trouble not listening to the siren song of the LEDs (I've always been a bit of a gadget junky:inlove