Zeeter's Dream Tank

[zeeter]

Ok, my dream tank is a giant 10,000 reef that takes up a whole building and needs three or four interns to run. Until I win the Powerball, that isn't going to happen. So my realistic dream tank is a 180 gl from Glass Cages. It seems that 180 is about the price point where anything bigger is going to add around $2000.

While for this build I am willing to pay a premium for the best if it's going to make a difference, I'm also going to be practical and save money where I can. I'm not rich, but have budgeted enough money to do things right.

Here's my plan: Tank in the dining room (also the main thoroughfare for the house) and sump in the basement. I've ordered two 150 gallon Rubbermaid stock tanks for this. Was going to get the 100 gl but the 150s were on sale for only $7 more.

I'll be using a 100gl water tank for holding RODI water, along with a 55gl drum for emergency salt water. ATO will run on gravity from the water tank to the sump using a float valve.

These tanks will be fed from a Typhoon III Extreme RODI system from Air, Water & Ice. This is an upgrade over the previous model I had from them that I was very happy with.

The first stock tank will be for the overflow. It will contain my mechanical filtration. I'll be adding a tall kitchen trashcan to this which will include "shelves" of plastic bins to hold the media and also some bioballs. All of these, of course, will be drilled out on their bottoms to allow flow. This trash can will ensure that everything goes through the filter floss and also will cut down on splashing. This tank will be plumbed to the second stock tank, which will be used for pumps and other necessary gear.

After a ton of research, I've decided to go with a Hydros control unit. Probably the X4 unless the X10 comes out before my build is done. I chose the Hydros because of its connectivity to various systems.

The protein skimmer will be a Bashsea 8-24, rated for 250-350 gl.

One thing that is very important to me is that absolutely nothing live will go into the tank that I didn't explicitly put there. No hitchhikers. In my 75gl years ago I had an uncontrollable outbreak of aiptasia and bristle worms. Even if it takes longer to cycle, this will be a cooked dry rock and dry sand tank.

I had thought of using radiant heat rather than traditional tank heaters. This would involve getting a tankless water heater and continuously running water from that through coils of rubber hosing in the sump and then back to the inlet of the water heater. I'm not sure of the energy costs of this, nor am I particularly comfortable with doing the electrical work required.

A few pumps and accessories aside, that's it for phase 1.

Phase 2 will be during and immediately after the later stages of the cycle. I may hold off on the Hydros until this phase since there's not much use for it until then.

I'm torn on my lighting. Initially I wanted three Kessil a360x Tuna Blue lights, but then I saw the a500x and thought that might be good to put in the middle, with a360xs on the sides. Then I saw a few more videos of the lights and I'm not sure I love the disco effect. Lighting is up in the air at the moment.

At some point I'll be getting a 3rd stock tank - possibly a 100 gl - and maybe a cheaper style - to be used as a refugium. This one will sit a bit higher so that I can pump water from sump 2 into it and then run a hose back to that sump via gravity. This will have a TBD red/purple light.

I'll be running Alkatronic and Mastertronic systems, along with a dosing system that is TBD. Will definitely be running Kalkwasser until I see a need for a calcium reactor. It is likely that I'll also set up phosban and denitrifying reactors, as well. However, I don't plan on putting in any advanced invertebrates until the tank matures a bit, so some of this gear will be more of a "wait until necessary" thing.

I hope to minimize water changes in favor of dosing, yet I'll always have that 55gl available if needed.

Quarantine will probably be some form of a biocube tank. I may also get another stock tank to use as a frag tank, but lets not get too crazy.

While waiting for my equipment to arrive (I can't do anything until the RODI unit arrives) I'm doing my fish research, and wow! They've gotten expensive over the last ten years!

That's about it for now. If anyone has any suggestions on improvements, or has input into might lighting dilemma, please let me know.

 

[JohnL]

This sounds like an awesome setup. Best of luck with it. Please share photos along the way.

 

[zeeter]

Add a generator to your plan or some way to power your tank in a natural disaster. Ours whole house Generac has been on a day and a half and just switched off.
I use a Hydros X2 and X4 because I want the probe and drive ports. I have 4 Hydros controlled outlet strips.
I have no interest in robotic testing and dosing. They do not seem reliable enough to me. Some people love them but they also seem to like fixing them.
I made my own 20 gallon kalk dripper that is run by Hydros
My RODI fill/flush and ATO are run by Hydros. It will do AWC as well
Phosban will bankrupt you on a large tank and I switched to LaCl dosing
I did water changes and then AWC and now none.
For lighting I am using Noopsyche K7s in Aquatic life Coralcovers. No bulb changes. I just switched to LED on my 240 gallon but have been using the same lights in my 180 for a year.
I would not fool with the water heater loop heating unless you live somewhere it is cold all the time.
Think about humidity control in your house.
The tank itself is a tiny bit of what your total system will cost.

I already have a Bluetti power station. I'm trying to figure out if I can get the system to automatically fail over to this, but at minimum it will run what needs to run until the power kicks back on. I don't live in an area that experiences extended power outages.

Question on the Hydros: I will be running that in the basement, but also want to be able to control the wavemaker upstairs. If I get the 4-prong to work upstairs will it link with the Hydros entirely? I thought I read where secondary power strips can only be run as dumb systems. That is, I can turn them on/off with the Hydros, but can't control anything else about them.

What the automatic testing systems do is tell you if you're out of parameters. If your test is usually within a range and now it's not then you know to do a manual test and figure out what's wrong. As long as you know that X on your manual test equals X+.5 on your automatic test you're fine. It just prevents the need for manually testing more than once a week or so.

I hear you on the phosban. Hopefully I'll only need to use it to mop up what the macroalgae in the refugium doesn't eat.

The video I saw with the closed loop heating system was from someone in Canada, so you may be on to something about the climate.

I have a dehumidifier that came with the house. No issues with that.

 

[zeeter]

4 prong?
you mean drive ports? I had to think on that. Still not sure.
I use the drive ports run solenoid valves on my rodi. For multiple wave pumps perhaps a Hydros WaveEngine. I use Vortech pumps in my tanks and Jebao pumps in the sump.

Most Hydros cables have extenders available.

Dont ask me how often I do testing. I did do some this year.

No - the outlets. The XP8 has eight outlets and the Hydros Power 4 strip has 4. I said prong and should have said outlets. What worries me is that the XP8 will give me full control of devices, while the Power 4 strip will only give me basic on/off for the entire strip.

 

[zeeter]

I think the 8 XP8 AC ports are only on/off as well just like the power strip ports. The only difference is you get power monitoring with the XP8.
Controlling a flow pump needs a Wave engine or a pump with 0-10 volt control.
Controllers - Controllers & Testing - Products | CoralVue

I'll have to read up on it. My understanding was that if I have a DC pump then I can adjust it through the Hydros app if it's plugged into the power strip. However, if I add a second Hydros power strip, I don't get that control - only on/off.

 

[zeeter]

There are very few lights that will cover more than 24x24 and the ones that do are much larger like Reefbrteeders Photons that span the tank or Orphek Atlantiks.
2 XR15 will not light your tank enough for coral. 3 probably will. BRS says it will. I have never tried that.
I have 4 140 watt Noopsyches in Coral covers that simulate T5s. My lights only run about 50% so I could get buy with less but LEDs burn out diodes somethimes if run 100% all the time. At least they used to. Overlap of light coverage is good since it cuts down on shading too.
BRS has very good videos on different fixtures and what they will do with numbers and they how high to mount them. Watch the ones for XR15s and you will know if they will do what you want.

Search "XR15" - Bulk Reef Supply

I really don't trust BRS's videos. They try to peddle their own product lines and the product lines of other companies that their parent company owns. For their science, sure. But for brand knowledge, not so much.
Shawn Parker from Parker's Reef did a very good video where he added the Kessils to his Radion setup. I'll have to look at that again.
The reason I was drawn to the XR15 was the 36" claim on BRS's site. Otherwise it was going to be the Kessils, and 3x24" coverage.

 

[JohnL]

Just got the tank ordered yesterday.

Congratulations

 

[zeeter]

I've drilled out the stock tank sumps and put pvc pipes between them using 2" bulkheads. Here's the problem: They leak due to the angle of the sides.
I've put about a yard of plumbing tape around the threads on both sides, and the o-ring is on the flange side.
Managed to twist it around to a position where it doesn't leak, but I expect it to start again at some point.

Any hints on getting these things flush with the sides so they don't leak?

 

[kharmaguru]

I've drilled out the stock tank sumps and put pvc pipes between them using 2" bulkheads. Here's the problem: They leak due to the angle of the sides.
I've put about a yard of plumbing tape around the threads on both sides, and the o-ring is on the flange side.
Managed to twist it around to a position where it doesn't leak, but I expect it to start again at some point.

Any hints on getting these things flush with the sides so they don't leak?

I find uniseals work better for curved surfaces but you likely can't go there now because the required hole is probably different.

 

[zeeter]

Latest update:

Thus far I have purchased everything but my lights and wavemaker. Still not sure where I'm going to go with the lights. Will probably get the Icecap 4k Gyre with Hydros controller for the wavemaker setup.

The leak problem persists. I've put plumbers putty around the connections and that seems to have helped but did not solve the problem. If this persists I'll need to throw out my sumps and start over.

There was a problem where the flow from one sump to the other was too strong to keep up with the bulkhead. I had to add another bulkhead to handle this as it wasn't even using the stronger return pump when testing.

I have about 120 lbs of dry rock at this point. Yes, I need more, but this is enough to get me started.

 

[MrClean]

The leak problem persists. I've put plumbers putty around the connections and that seems to have helped but did not solve the problem. If this persists I'll need to throw out my sumps and start over.

If the bulkhead fittings are long enough, maybe you could get a spacers printed to match the curve of the sumps. You'd need to come up with gaskets between sump and spacers.

 

[zeeter]

Leak problem appears to be solved. Might be a moot point, though. I'm thinking about changing out two of the 110G stock tanks for a 300. This will alleviate the constant worry that it'll start leaking again at any time or that the flow will be greater than the pvc connections allow. Will keep the 3rd 110 to be used as the refugium.

What I'm struggling with now is the plumbing on the return.

The tank is set up for two 1" returns. I'm trying to figure out how to get from the sump to the tank.

• Should I use one 1" tube from the pump to the tank and then split it?
  • If doing so, should I reduce to 1/2" at the split? Or maybe 3/4"?
• Should I run two pumps and use two 1" tubes? I only see return nozzles for 1/2" or 3/4"

The pump I have now is 1300-3100 gph on DC. This should be more than enough to provide for the head pressure.

 

[kharmaguru]

Leak problem appears to be solved. Might be a moot point, though. I'm thinking about changing out two of the 110G stock tanks for a 300. This will alleviate the constant worry that it'll start leaking again at any time or that the flow will be greater than the pvc connections allow. Will keep the 3rd 110 to be used as the refugium.

What I'm struggling with now is the plumbing on the return.

The tank is set up for two 1" returns. I'm trying to figure out how to get from the sump to the tank.

• Should I use one 1" tube from the pump to the tank and then split it?
  • If doing so, should I reduce to 1/2" at the split? Or maybe 3/4"?
• Should I run two pumps and use two 1" tubes? I only see return nozzles for 1/2" or 3/4"

The pump I have now is 1300-3100 gph on DC. This should be more than enough to provide for the head pressure.

Always run the biggest pipe you can for as far as you can. If you need to reduce, do it at the very end of your run.

 

[zeeter]

I've officially ditched the idea of running the sump in the basement. Just too much aggravation and worry about the stock tanks potentially leaking. Not only that, but my basement isn't finished and despite putting up plastic drop cloths on the walls there's still debris that gets in there. Finally, I'd need 2-2.5" holes and 2-1.5" holes in the floor. That's a lot of large holes.

A sump gives me everything I need other than water volume. This is the one I got:

48" Bashsea Pro sump. This will allow me to use filter socks for now and then potentially upgrade to a fleece roller at a later date. It also will house my twisted skimmer, which is a problem with other sump brands due to its footprint.

I went through a lot of struggles looking for a sump and was pretty close to spending $2100 for a Hmahli. When looking at that, though, the only difference I saw was the big Hmahli logo on the front. It probably is better made, but I'll be able to get this sump plus a KH Carer or an Alkatronic for less than the Hmahli.

The plan now is to use two 32 gallon containers in the basement to house my saltwater for a persistent water change. Say, two gallons per day using stepper pumps. That will give me about 60gl a month or about 1/4 total volume. I'll run fresh water up to an ATO reservoir directly from the RODI - that head room is only going to be about 5 feet. This will need about a 1" hole to cover the ATO, water change, and run-off lines from the skimmer and Mastertronic.

In total I'll have a minimum of 80 gallons and maximum of 110 gallons of water to handle any catastrophes.

 

[JohnL]

That's a good looking sump. I think your new plan is a good one

 

[zeeter]

The dream tank hit a snag. The tank order was cancelled and I don't want to get into the details.

As of right now, I'm wondering if I should sell my about $5000 worth of gear at likely a huge loss or order a different brand. Looking at Waterbox. Now, I know that I've had my issues with them in the past, but their products look good and they claim to ship within three days.

What I'm wondering is about the sump. They won't remove it and thus lower the price, and I already have the Bashsea sump. On the other hand, if I order one custom without a sump it costs about $2000 more than the pre-packaged one.

Does anyone have a Waterbox sump, and if so - what do you think of it?

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

Zeeter a thought here, how about a hole for an AC vent? You can get a lot of tubing in there. Plus you can get a cover for it.

 

[zeeter]

The tank is back on track. I reinvested the money into a Waterbox.


It's a 230.6 model. 167 gallons, but has the same measurements as the 180 I had previously ordered. That said, I am not the least bit pleased with Waterbox's customer service. They give very short answers to complex questions and then do not stick around for followup questions. I called them and mentioned that I asked online and needed additional information. The person I talked to basically said that it's whatever the online people said as they had more information. This begs the question: Why do you even post your number online? They kind of made me feel like my questions were silly and wanted to move on from me.

On the other hand, I was extremely impressed by their processing. I ordered the tank late Tuesday night. By around noon on Wednesday I got a message saying it had been shipped. Received the tracking number later that night and Fedex called me the next day to arrange the delivery.

So we're cooking with grease now. I have movers arranged for next Tuesday - hopefully I'll have time put the stand together before they arrive. This is another thing with Waterbox; their attitude on chat and on the phone was so off-putting that I forgot to ask if the stand comes pre-assembled or not.

Waterbox stated that the tank alone is 650lbs. This does not seem right, as a 180 with the same dimensions is 450lbs at most. I even used a glass weight calculator to see if perhaps the 19mm would make it 200lbs heavier. It did not. When I called, they said that I need to include the overflow. I doubt the overflow adds 200lbs to the tank, plus isn't it acrylic, anyway?

Look, when I pay $4499 for a fishtank I want to talk to someone who is interested in selling to me and not just processing paperwork. So while I like the tank and the processing speed for Waterbox, I expect more from their service. They might deal with people who spend thousands on a tank every day. I don't buy a tank like this but once, maybe twice a lifetime.

 

[zeeter]

The above said, I'm onto lights. When ordering the tank I included the Ecotech RMS Rail system.

Options are:

Two Kessil a500x and a third later
Three Radion XR15s and a fourth later

Kessils have a maximum coverage of 36" and an effective coverage of 24"
XR15s have a max coverage of 24" and an effective coverage of 18"

One thing I wonder about the XR15s is whether to go blue or pro. I like the look of the pro better, but this is just looking at Youtube. It may be too white IRL.

 

[JohnL]

The tank is back on track. I reinvested the money into a Waterbox

Best of luck with the new tank. I'm looking forward to seeing photos.