Zeovit system vs. Algae scrubber

[Tang Salad]

It's really very silly to claim that one method is more natural than the other, given that neither method nor any aquarium is even remotely comparable to a real ocean ecosystem.

As to the OP's question, you will not find many dedicated SPS tanks running algae scrubbers. They'd be a very poor choice if your goal is to get the most colorful SPS possible.

 

[daytonareefing]

There is a zeovit forum website which may help. Zeovit systems use zeolite which reduces phosphates and nitrates. Zeovit systems crash just like any other system no more no less but its a hole different way of setting up your system like 2mm size sand and only 2" thick with no refugium and no UV. Its all bacteria based and it really works. They have remedies for all kinds of problems as well. But its not cheap to run.

 

[Reefvet]

Santa Monica you will disclose that you're in the ATS business won't you ?

Richard Ross took his offline after a few months testing it on his personal tank. He's is a Senior Biologist at the Steinhart Aquarium in the California Academy of Sciences and the MASNA 2014 Aquarist of the year.

 

[Connoisseur]

I understand where you're going with that, ReefVet ...

It's important that one has the information/knowledge that an individuals opinion(s) can be/often are heavily biased, based on financial gains aspect ... However, in all fairness, santa monica has responsibly labelled his signature/username footprint well enough to give anyone, with an ounce of acumen, the understanding that he's a player in/proponent of the ATS business ... While I personally agree that certainly should not cause any corruption, whatsoever, in the/his advice given, its seemingly a non-issue there.

One thing I will comment on, however, is the blatant usage/copying of another members writing style ... But, nearly half of the other members on here are now seemingly doing the exact same thing ... It's better than the previous nonsensical grammar and sentence structure the site was often known for in the past, before the aforementioned member was around, so I digress ! Many intelligent people, particularly those with scientific backgrounds, just despise their works being blatantly copied by the masses; especially when done blatantly and without an ounce of respectful acknowledgment to the original members style/works

 

[Connoisseur]

I was simply going off memory of previous posts, it's apparent this has changed, so your input was/is completely valid, ReefVet.

A thread link, regarding the origins of the modern Algae Turf Scrubber, is far from the previously disclosed signature footprint; which divulged his business fully.

I apologize in advance for not being completely diligent about the information I was determining my response off ...

 

[jedimasterben]

There is a zeovit forum website which may help. Zeovit systems use zeolite which reduces phosphates and nitrates.

The zeo stones used in Zeovit selectively adsorb ammonia (and potassium), not nitrate or phosphate. Their purpose is to remove the nitrogen cycle from the equation as much as possible.

Santa Monica you will disclose that you're in the ATS business won't you ?

Richard Ross took his offline after a few months testing it on his personal tank. He's is a Senior Biologist at the Steinhart Aquarium in the California Academy of Sciences and the MASNA 2014 Aquarist of the year.

Rich's results cannot be ignored, but there are many reefers that have had measured reductions in both nitrate and phosphate, myself included, while using a properly sized, lit, and maintained ATS. I don't know any details of Rich's ATS, but I assume that it was not a DIY unit, and I also assume that he did his homework on sizing and did the proper maintenance on it (otherwise I don't think he would have discussed it much ).

You're not going to find a lot of big SPS tanks with really old corals in them that have an ATS because those reefers typically do not change anything. They know what works and they keep it that way, even if the hardware is severely outdated. Some people, though, like me, never leave things alone because I like to tinker too much, and that's probably why I don't have a full SPS reef

 

[shred5]

I am actually going to give a answer.

Sps like lower nutrient tank and dont like phosphates.

So unls like zeo would be better for sps.. UNLS system are not good for allot lps and softies..

Removing nutrients vie algae requires higher phosphate levels or the algae dont grow. So it would be better for lps and sofites.


That does not mean that sps wont grow with a algae scrubber it was asked which is better for what!

Personall I never understood all the fuss about Zeovit.
The only real benefit I can see is brighter pastel colors, which i guess is cool if you like that sort of thing.(personally i find it jarringly unnatural.)
But my view of technology and aquariums has always been that its there to make our lives easier and our tanks healthier. To me it seems kind of counterproductive to use a complex system that takes "more" time and effort to work out, especially when the consequences for a foul up could be disastrous.

But thats just me.

Not everyone who uses Zeovit has pastel colors. It aint no different than any bacteria driven system like dosing vodka or using pellets. It just gives you a media zeolites for bacteria to grow on. it all depends on how far you go with it. Usually the people that do zeo are obsessive.

I heard that the algae scrubber reduces nitrates.

Of coarse they do algae the basics : nitrogen source, carbon, and phosphate.

Check out the SPS forum. You'll find that most successful systems are run pretty simple. Maybe filter socks, a good reactor or two, and a good skimmer. The systems are designed and maintained so that they stay clean. The emphasis is on growing stony corals. Not bugs, worms, and algae.

Hey EC have not seen you around, thought maybe you were gone...
By the way that is pretty much true for most but allot of people now are using some sort of bacteria driven system mainly bio pellets.

 

[billsreef]

Of course - but there is no reason to say that the algae scrubber is what caused it. If the staff didn't know what the limitations are the ATS, or relied on it as their only method of filtration then that is not quite reason to pin it on the ATS itself.

The Smithsonian tank did indeed rely on their ATS as the only filtration on that tank. There was a fair amount of yellowing of the water as result. Addey was known for steadfastly refusing to use any other type of filtration, choosing to essentially turn a blind eye to the shortcomings of an ATS as the sole filtration, and trying to keep the chronic replacement of corals hushed. Had he been willing to use things like protein skimmers, carbon, etc., things might have different.

 

[jedimasterben]

The Smithsonian tank did indeed rely on their ATS as the only filtration on that tank. There was a fair amount of yellowing of the water as result. Addey was known for steadfastly refusing to use any other type of filtration, choosing to essentially turn a blind eye to the shortcomings of an ATS as the sole filtration, and trying to keep the chronic replacement of corals hushed. Had he been willing to use things like protein skimmers, carbon, etc., things might have different.

There's the kicker, then!

 

[Tang Salad]

The Smithsonian tank did indeed rely on their ATS as the only filtration on that tank. There was a fair amount of yellowing of the water as result. Addey was known for steadfastly refusing to use any other type of filtration, choosing to essentially turn a blind eye to the shortcomings of an ATS as the sole filtration, and trying to keep the chronic replacement of corals hushed. Had he been willing to use things like protein skimmers, carbon, etc., things might have different.

Indeed they would have. It seems that Addey started something of an ATS tradition that continues to this day. The big proponents of ATS methods seem to always need to cross the line from describing them as an interesting filtration method with specialized and limited use cases... to describing them as miraculous natural replacements for all other filtration methods and for all types of systems. It's when they cross that line that the debate becomes heated, as many experienced reefers recognize that latter claim as demonstrably wrong.

 

[Windy2]

So the experiment at the Smithsonian didn't work out very well. The idea was sound if undersized. Also there has been tremendous improvement in the ATS technology since then. I can show many examples of ATS success, so why the negativity?

 

[billsreef]

The Smithsonian's scrubbers were quite large. The problem wasn't size, it was lack of combining other filtration methods to make for a complete filtration system. Something that is still necessary, even with new ATS.

 

[SantaMonica]

The part about replacing corals at the Smithsonian is brand new info to me. Never read it anywhere in any of the publications, patents, or other writings. If someone can post any link to this info, it would be nice to see. Everything I have read shows the exact opposite: Coral growth (and diversity) were higher than natural reefs. (Also, how would coral replacements be done if the system was closed to the environment for 8 years, similar to the BioSphere?)

 

[Tang Salad]

The part about replacing corals at the Smithsonian is brand new info to me.

Are you sure about that? I have a vague recollection of a very similar conversation with you, sometime around 2008, where someone else brought up this exact example.

 

[JOSHUAB]

So with all that being said what would be the best system setup you all recommend an SPS based tank?

 

[elegance coral]

Sign posted outside the reef display at the Smithsonian during one of its failures.

SantaMonica, maybe this will refresh your memory about them replacing corals after they've killed them.






Photo's belong to FutureDoc.

 

[shred5]

So with all that being said what would be the best system setup you all recommend an SPS based tank?

Honestly I like a very efficient skimmer with a back up gfo reactor just in case phosphates get high..If you keep up on water changes and maintenance phosphates should not get high... Good lighting and good flow. I also like to run poly-filters instead of carbon.

I also have no issues with carbon based system either if people understand them and have time for them.. Problem is most people start using them as a band-aid and really do not understand how they work..

 

[reefgeezer]

So with all that being said what would be the best system setup you all recommend an SPS based tank?

Take a look @ past TOTM system threads. They are almost always SPS tanks. Look at what they have in common. Among those commonalities are usually a great skimmer, bacterial based nitrate reduction, some additional phosphate control, great lighting, and a rock solid method to add calcium/alkalinity in a consistent & stable manner. Some employ a few Zeo products as supplements. Notice that an ATS or Zeolite reactor are usually absent from those systems.

 

[billsreef]

The part about replacing corals at the Smithsonian is brand new info to me. Never read it anywhere in any of the publications, patents, or other writings. If someone can post any link to this info, it would be nice to see. Everything I have read shows the exact opposite: Coral growth (and diversity) were higher than natural reefs. (Also, how would coral replacements be done if the system was closed to the environment for 8 years, similar to the BioSphere?)

I used to know people working on that exhibit back in the 80's, and learned about those issues long before it came out as public knowledge. IIRC, it was sometime in the 90's that continual replacement of corals in the original exhibit started to become wide spread knowledge.... basically too many people in the loop to keep it quiet. Not exactly something they published.

 

[rgulrich]

Here's a little light reading that might fill in some of the blanks of the aforementioned ATS picture. Simply stated, they cannot and should not be used alone if used in a closed (aquarium or biosphere) stony coral system. There are ways to remove these compounds from solution - activated carbon, heavy skimming, whatnot, but they still need to be removed. As part of complete filtration package, they make a great addition - but if used, you have to take the systems approach.

Competition induces allelopathy but suppresses growth and anti-herbivore defence in a chemically rich seaweed (what did I say about spelling in relation to location?)
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/royprsb/281/1777/20132615.full.pdf

Seaweed-Coral Interactions: Variance in Seaweed Allelopathy, Coral Susceptibility, and Potential Effects on Coral Resilience
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0085786

Marine Chemical Ecology: Chemical Signals and Cues Structure Marine Populations, Communities, and Ecosystems
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3380104/

Natural history of coral−algae competition across a gradient of human activity in the Line Islands
http://www.int-res.com/articles/feature/m460p001.pdf

Professor Mark ‘The Master’ Hay shows the Coral Algae Research Lab the tricks to examine algal allelopathic effects on corals
http://coralreefalgaelab.org/2013/0...tigate-seaweed-allelopathy-warfare-on-corals/
Oh, and you may be interested in the homepage for this site as well:
Coral Reef Algae Research Lab
http://coralreefalgaelab.org/

Chemical defense of an exotic coral as invasion strategy (invasive soft coral)
http://www.lecar.uff.br/uploads/sit...e of an exotic coral as invasion strategy.pdf


Hey, how a round of applause for these unsung heroes of the reef, the herbivores and their compatriots?
Corals Chemically Cue Mutualistic Fishes to Remove Competing Seaweeds (this one is pretty neat – really, and may be an argument against using an allopath removal agent)
http://www.dugdug.com/dr-danielle-dixson-discusses-coral-reef-research

Ah well, all for now.

Cheers,
Ray