Ok, I watch my tank like a hawk. To the point of counting the polyps of each frag. Seems that they are all growing. But not by leaps and bounds. So, I decided to break up my largest colony and frag it out to monitor it's growth. I took 39 polyps and seperated them into 11 frags. Kept the mother frag on the original mount with 8 polyps. Now I have 10 more frags with anywhere from 2 to 3 and some 4 polyp frags. I spread them out on a large flat piece of LR. The same rock that they were on before. I also left them in the exact same location. I did a 5 min dip in 1gal RO/DI with 5 drops Lugols. I used very lightly, super glue gel. Trying not to set them too deeply in it. By the end of the evening over 1/2 have reopened. I will try to take some pictures of the progress. Personally, I see no reason whatsoever why they won't grow faster like this. This should be good !!!
Zoa Fragging Experiment !!!
- Thread starter Curtis1
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terrypercula
New member
I've done this with my larger colonies it absolutely worked for me.
They really took it on the chin for the first few days after. I dipped them for 5 minutes in 1 gal RO/DI freshwater with 5 drops of Lugols. I think that I got glue on top of a couple of the polyps, but for the most part I think that I counted 27 of 31 open at once. So I think that it was a total success. Plus I experimented a little. Just to see how much abuse they can take during the fragging process. The first couple days, just one from each frag would open. I'm going to try to get some good pictures. My digital phone sucks.
It would be interesting if you took 5 frags and left them alone and with the other 5, cut them at specific sizes like when they double and keep track for a year.
At the end see which grew more.
I ran a similar experiment but only fragged a few times.
Good luck.
At the end see which grew more.
I ran a similar experiment but only fragged a few times.
Good luck.
terrypercula
New member
What kind of glue did you use?
29mixedreef
New member
The polyps could have melted. Was there any signs of stress on the polyps???
akitareefer
New member
I don't use lugols dips on my zoas because I find it pretty harsh. I usually use coral RX or nothing if the polyps came off easy.
Don't you hate when fresh cut polyps disappear! I think it happens to all of us
Don't you hate when fresh cut polyps disappear! I think it happens to all of us
No, the polyps were perfectly fine in the beginning. What threw me off, was how well they had recovered at first ??? I used the thick Gel Super Glue from Dollar Store. They didn't melt. I have found one, so that leads me to think that they weren't eaten, just shrink enough to break free of the glue. Like they don't want to be touching it. I haven't had much luck lately with Palys either ??? The Lugols and Freshwater RO/DI, yes I agree they seemed pretty harsh on my last batch of Zoas and palys that I got in. Of 10 frags, I think I had 2-3 just melt away ??? I believe that they were Palys, not sure though ? Yes, I hate to lose polyps !!! How bout this, you get home from work, run over to the tank and first thing you see is a big ol fat, plump, polyp a floatin' by !!! DOH !!! I can hear a cash register somewhere in my head going,,, CHA-CHING !!! I still have about 1/3 of the original frags in their place. Plus I kept an original from the parent with 8 polyps. Any body have a better way to frag loose polyps ? I am trying with rubble in the bottom of a cup in my sump. I put the loose polys in there and hoping that they will adhere to some bit of rubble. Otherwise, only other way I know would be to sew each polyp. Put fishing line thru them and wrap it around a rock. I am going to try that next. a bit extreme, but I'll bet that it will work.
terrypercula
New member
This may seem like an odd question but you didn't frag them in the display tank did you?
29mixedreef
New member
I usually tend to frag the zoas with some original rock/frag plug with it. I then glue them on new rock or frag plug. Fragging the mat of the zoanthids can be done alone but its a bit more complicated and can slice polyps in half. Loose polyps need to be glued down or else will float away and never again will you see them. Try putting a small dot of glue only to cover the mat and try to avoid the glue touching the polyp itself.
Yes , in the main DT. It was initially a large mat of around 39 polyps. The mat had grown out over the edges of a square frag tile, 3/4" all around. I cut them up into smaller pieces to try this. I pretty much tried to get by using as little glue as possible, it just didn't hold them. There are still 1/3 rd of the original placed frags left doing fine.
Follow-up,,, the experiment , including the set-back , was still a success. I now have close to double the original amount of polyps, despite all that were lost in the experiment. The results would have probably produced 20% more polyps without the losses ? I have them located in 7 spots through-out the aquarium. Would definitely recommend this technique to others. But need a better dip method.
There are many variations of zoanthids and palys but from massive observation and study, some zoanthids and plays, grow using a similar mechanism like cucumbers but slightly different of course but very similar. You will notice that the creep will stretch out and bud one new polyp and then continue on its way to budding the next. Like cucumbers, the vines grow and new flowers bud. Unlike cucumbers though, the new polyp has the ability to produce its own leading creep strands however most of the time they do not especially if they are over crowded. Usually only the outside polyps and strands will continue to produce polyps.
Now remember how I said each polyp has the ability to produce these new vines or creep strands, they usually can produce many creep strands as long as their metabolism can support it. I've seen really healthy single polyps produce 5-8 new strands at once. Now imagine when you free up the 20-30 polyps that were being inhibited by its neighbors. 20-30 polyps times 2-3 new strands each is a drastic increase of new polyp producing creep vines.
Now remember how I said each polyp has the ability to produce these new vines or creep strands, they usually can produce many creep strands as long as their metabolism can support it. I've seen really healthy single polyps produce 5-8 new strands at once. Now imagine when you free up the 20-30 polyps that were being inhibited by its neighbors. 20-30 polyps times 2-3 new strands each is a drastic increase of new polyp producing creep vines.
A. Grandis
Active member
The probability is normally the more polyps per frag, the faster they will recover from the cuts and reproduce/grow. I always recommend frags of 8 to 10 polyps min.
The polyps to be fragged need to be healthy and the cut should have a one shot deal, sharp and precise. You can use a sharp pointed knife. That works better than those razor blades.
Dipping in Lugol's works the best for me. Basically 100% success for colonies from my systems.
I use 8 to 10 oz of fresh water with 5 drops of Lugol's for like 3 minutes.
No problems at all. Works great and all the time.
Best deal for super glue gel is the Loctite brand. You can find that at Home Depot. Can't go wrong with that!!!
Do the job as fast as you can do and with full protection against Palytoxin!!
I mean: goggles, gloves and closed mouth! Clean all the instruments/table afterwords and make sure to wash your hands and the surfaces where you were working at. No children nor pets around, please!! Be serious about that!
The growth of each frag will normally depend on the species, system, fragging technique/gluing and maintenance. It varies so much that it isn't even funny.
This type of experiment is interesting, but the variables are so huge that no one can take it as a model, unfortunately. I've heard from people that did very similar of what you just did in the past just to loose all the frags and the mother colony as well. "Knocking on wood!"
Very nice post! Please continue and show the pictures when you have some time. :thumbsup:
Gook luck to you, be safe, and have fun with the zoas.
Grandis.
The polyps to be fragged need to be healthy and the cut should have a one shot deal, sharp and precise. You can use a sharp pointed knife. That works better than those razor blades.
Dipping in Lugol's works the best for me. Basically 100% success for colonies from my systems.
I use 8 to 10 oz of fresh water with 5 drops of Lugol's for like 3 minutes.
No problems at all. Works great and all the time.
Best deal for super glue gel is the Loctite brand. You can find that at Home Depot. Can't go wrong with that!!!
Do the job as fast as you can do and with full protection against Palytoxin!!
I mean: goggles, gloves and closed mouth! Clean all the instruments/table afterwords and make sure to wash your hands and the surfaces where you were working at. No children nor pets around, please!! Be serious about that!
The growth of each frag will normally depend on the species, system, fragging technique/gluing and maintenance. It varies so much that it isn't even funny.
This type of experiment is interesting, but the variables are so huge that no one can take it as a model, unfortunately. I've heard from people that did very similar of what you just did in the past just to loose all the frags and the mother colony as well. "Knocking on wood!"
Very nice post! Please continue and show the pictures when you have some time. :thumbsup:
Gook luck to you, be safe, and have fun with the zoas.
Grandis.
SantaMonica
Well-known member
I used to do this fragging too, but only to see what parts of the tank they would grow best in. More/less light, flow, etc. Usually half would survive, and then I'd know what the other half preferred.
