Zoas not doing well

Johnic

Johnic

Premium Member
I only have three small batches of various zoas and as the past couple weeks went by they started to close up and now they're completely closed the past couple days. My water parameters are all good
Alk 8.0
Calc 395
Nitrates 0
Phos .03
Salt 1.026
Temp 77

I run and have been running gfo and carbon. I'm not sure why they got like this lately but it's only the zoas.
Any idea why?..:debi:
 
I would begin removing the GFO, by the info you gave me.
You have other ways to control phosphates better than GFO.
Please do a search, there are billions of reasons for closed polyps...

Grandis.
 
Any change in flow? I just picked up a wild zoa rock, and more of them were closing everyday, put it in a low flow area, they almost all closed, then tried to give it more flow, now the more flow, the happier the colony looks
 
Ya. What's weird is that the gfo, flow and carbon were always in my tank. Granted I just swapped out the gfo for a new batch, I've always had gfo in the tank.
I did hear its not good for the tank, but is this confirmed that's it's bad?
 
You need to search for the GFO before you decide if you're going to keep it or not.
There are long threads in this forum about the subject.
It works for some systems but it could be more detrimental than beneficial in others.

The basic questions to you are:
Do you know what are the possibilities of side effects when using GFO?
Do you really need to use GFO? Why?
Are there any other safer way you could control phosphates in your system?

Besides, if you don't really need it, you'll be saving money!!!
Remember: the people who sells the reactors aren't just making money on them.
The reactor is only the beginning. The media will keep them in business.

You could start here:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2397865

Keep in mind that your problem could be many things.
If you give us more details about your system you'll have higher probability to find out what your problem is!
Pics?

Grandis.
 
GFO and Carbon quickly take out nutrients from the tank right. So in essence I think it shocks the Z's and P's. I run GFO in my tank but thats only once in a while as it quickly takes out nutrients from the tank. I've noticed once I have it online my Z's and P's aren't happy. Hell my Z's and P's look more happier and vibrant when I'm busy and don't get to really do water changes.
 
650-IS350 said:
GFO and Carbon quickly take out nutrients from the tank right. So in essence I think it shocks the Z's and P's. I run GFO in my tank but thats only once in a while as it quickly takes out nutrients from the tank. I've noticed once I have it online my Z's and P's aren't happy. Hell my Z's and P's look more happier and vibrant when I'm busy and don't get to really do water changes.
Click to expand...

Very true about dirty water. My last tank I had a AIO filter and it wasn't cleaning the tank good enough, got a ton of HA and Bryopsis but the zoa's looked awesome.
This tank I went completely opposite got a killer skimmer run gfo from the start, have filter socks and do 1% water changes each day. My sps like it but my zoas not so much.
 
Define "dirty water." (please)

FWIW, I've seen zoanthids all hugged up next to sps corals too many times before.
 
My perimeter are on the first one at top. They are in check. I also agree with the kiss method and only run a GFO and GAC reactor.
Very frustrating!!!
 
Johnic said:
I only have three small batches of various zoas and as the past couple weeks went by they started to close up and now they're completely closed the past couple days. My water parameters are all good
Alk 8.0
Calc 395
Nitrates 0
Phos .03
Salt 1.026
Temp 77

I run and have been running gfo and carbon. I'm not sure why they got like this lately but it's only the zoas.
Any idea why?..:debi:
Click to expand...



Johnic said:
My perimeter are on the first one at top. They are in check. I also agree with the kiss method and only run a GFO and GAC reactor.
Very frustrating!!!
Click to expand...



my friend , first rule of reefing.......

with just three clusters of zoanthids before you start pulling out media, adjusting parameters, lights and all that jazz or making any decisions that affect the whole tank.

check for things that wont affect your whole system , predators would be my first search mainly nudibranchs late at night. fish, snails, crabs etc. then start with flow and lighting by moving them around.

none of these things mess with your water or system as a whole.

gfo isnt necssarily bad, visit the chemistry forum and you'll see alot of people (including RHF)use gfo without issues and recommend it ... myself included in a very zoanthid dominant system. if you use too much, drop to much po4 or on the verge of a sensitive system(low alk CD systems) etc. then gfo may not agree with you at all or may need to use with caution.in any case gfo can and is very beneficial , it just does too good of a job sometimes:)
 
650-IS350 said:
sometimes a bit faster than you think sometime LOL,
Click to expand...

it really does , after using it for so long you start to think your system is immune to its strength but its a hard lesson learned . ****ed off zoas usually only last for a few days as po4 rises again or as the decline in po4 stops its sudden drop. small amounts changed out more often are a bit more forgiving then a large dose all at once.
 
Well guess what I found a nudi, super small. I pulled it out, but should I be concerned about eggs? Ya think I stopped the problem.
 
Johnic said:
Well guess what I found a nudi, super small. I pulled it out, but should I be concerned about eggs? Ya think I stopped the problem.
Click to expand...

More than likely more than one , dip the pieces every week for a few weeks and manual removal, if the system can handle it a nice hungry wrasses never hurts to help stand guard
 
650-IS350 said:
http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/advanced-topics/93397-nutrient-rich-system.html

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/cj/index.php
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links!!
I haven't seen the article before and I agree 100%!
:thumbsup:

"...
Zoanthids (order Zoanthidea)
Notice that this word contains only a single "o." A zoo is a place where animals are kept on display, whereas zo-(rhymes with toe) is a prefix meaning "animal." Actually, the prefix zo- and the word zoo have completely different etymologies; that they appear to be similar is just coincidence. This is a simple point, but I can't overstate how it grates on the ears of folks who know better. My advice in any endeavor would be to know the correct pronunciations of its words; otherwise we seem less-informed than we truly are.

As mentioned above for corallimorpharians, zoanthids do not need and are not necessarily healthier in high nutrient water. Tropical species often grow on the same reefs as our other corals, and there is no reason to assume that their needs for dissolved inorganic nutrients should be different than that of any other groups of corals. They do seem fairly tolerant of conditions that other corals often don't tolerate, but this is no reason to push them to their limits. They have no more place in a new, immature tank than does any other coral. Similarly, a dog might be able to go two months without food whereas a cat might only survive one month, but who would test this on their pets? It probably isn't a good idea to see how far our charges can stray from suitable conditions and still survive. Along these lines, nutrient-rich water does not satisfy all the nutritional needs of most zoanthids. In fact, many of them are decidedly predatory (Tanner, 2002) and some absolutely feast on any food offered. Other species tend to be much pickier in what they will accept. In general, species in the genus Zoanthus tend to rely heavily on light, dissolved nutrients and detritus. Some species readily take certain prey but reject many others. Finding out what they will and won't take is largely a matter of trial and error. In nature plenty of whatever they eat is usually available, so obtaining sufficient food is rarely an issue for wild zoanthids. Due to the very limited plankton populations in our tanks, this is not the case in captivity. Species from some of the other genera tend to take food more readily, especially some Protopalythoa spp. Some individuals in this genus can be absolutely ravenous, and while they use light to a large extent (like most reef corals), food seems to be more important (Tanner, 2002). The polyps of a particular colony that was in my care often would catch and engulf five or six pellets or two or three mysid shrimp at a time. Each polyp would then reopen within minutes and take the same amount of food again. I have fed this colony this amount of food four and five times a day, and it eagerly takes the food each time and expands again, tentacles waving in the current. So much for zoanthids not eating.

In terms of light intensity and water flow, luckily, these corals are very adaptable. They certainly can and do grow in modest light levels and weak water flow, and this is often what they're given in captivity. More often in nature they are actually found in shallow water where light is very strong and water flow can be turbulent. On a large granite boulder in "The Baths" on Virgin Gorda, BVI I saw a carpet of Palythoa sp. covering at least 300 if not 400 ft.2 reaching from the surface to about 2 m depth and exposed to crashing waves without any shade from the sun whatsoever. While the majority of species can be found in shallow areas, some are found almost exclusively in deeper water. Again, variation is the rule and classifying any sort of conditions as the "right" conditions for this group ignores the fact that each colony can be very different from every other colony. No two species are the same and there are likely many species (though they need taxonomic revision).
..."

I like what he wrote about feeding too.
Thanks again!

Grandis.
 
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