10 months in - thinking about starting over

I think I am indeed on the turnaround. The Spongodes (montipora Confusa) has it's polyps back out and looks like it is recovering nicely.

Now if I can just get rid of the aiptaisa. I see I still have bergia and the peppermints from divers den in the sump - The peppermints in the display must be the wrong species and I haven't seen a bergia in the display in a long time. Even Chris at FAOIS commented when I showed him the web-cam shot - what is all that stuff waving around in the tank? he asked.
 
He started out by eating some of the aiptasia I had in the tank - but has since quit munching on it.
 
I had no idea there was different species of peppermints either. I had aptasia in my 20g, had it fairly bad too. Added two peps and within a week it was all gone and I never saw it again.
 
Oh - I knew there were different species - thanks to the discussions with John at FAOIS. What I added (from a place up in new port richey) was a gamble - I didn't really expect them to work. I expected the LiveAquaria ones to work and they have been munching on something in the sump.

So the coral problems could have been any number of my previous listed issues. I'm really leaning towards the change in spectral lighting. In which case - everything in this thread about LED spectra - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2315500 in regards to pacific Suns do not apply.
 
From what i've read with the berghia's is that the adults wont eat them. The idea is to get them to breed and them the babies will..
 
I'm probably a week or two away from recycling my rock with an acid bath (due to the aiptasia http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2348947). Until that time - I took a chance and bought a new frag from FAOIS last week. so far so good.

I've had the GFO and carbon off-line for two weeks now. Surprisingly, my phosphates aren't that bad. 0.1 PPM on the hanna ULR checker (up from 0.07 PPM from my last tests). Nitrates are running a little higher but still in the safe range - around 4 PPM (up from around 2 PPM).

I haven't tested since before my last water change two weeks ago (10/21) Alk was at 3.7 meq/l, Ca at 470 and Mg at 1360. Dropped my dosing down from 100 ml of Ca and Alk to 35 ml per day.

Tested again yesterday - Alk was at 2.4 mq/l and Ca was at 450 and Mg was still at 1360. Upped the dose to 50 ml of Ca and Alk, left the Mg at 25 ml per day.

So something's consuming alk in the tank (ESV mixes up to 3.5 meq/l). Probably the vermetids.
 
I see Promise!

The faois frag is still doing good. Polyps out - color good - no recession.

Mike's Green Frag - one of two of mike's survivors - is showing new growth - which is really what I wanted to see.
 
My humble opinion is that keeping corals is easy and do not make it a science experiment. Looking at your early photos noticed your rock appeared "dirty". Please do not take that personally. When you see awesome SPS tanks, you see awesome coralline covered rock, without any "fuzz" all over it. When I see fuzzy rocks I think of not enough flow, not enough Blue Legs, no socks, too much feeding, etc. We all know SPS need pristine water and sometimes "fuzzy" rocks are good indicators of not so pristine water. The SPS in the photos are 100% guaranteed not dying from the vermetid snails. Noticed some of the frags you bought grew perfectly with the snails before you got them. My LFS has awesome Blue Tort colony, not frag, with vermetids as well. But having an outbreak of vermetids only reinforces the theory of "organically rich". Exactly the type of water SPS do not do well in. Are you adding phyto. If so STOP. The photos of your SPS also look like they are dying from a chemical inbalance. Are you adding too many supplements. All you need is Alk, Ca and Mg. The rest, stron., iod., amminos etc, are only to be used ones you have an awesome SPS tank and need the fine tune it. But I have seem many awesome SPS tanks with just the basic 3 being added. As far as Aiptasia nudis, they work. I have seen the ones from salty supply always work. Took 2-3 months but always worked. I suggest on the next tank, go sandless, as soon as it is cycled add a lot of sm blue Legs and a good amount of snails. Have good flow, or better great flow. Use sock ALWAYS. Use only basic supplements. GFO reactors, no problem. Change 25% of water every two weeks. Go see what your LFS does on their reef tanks. My LFS in Tampa grows and harvests SPS on a weekly basis. I would only listen to advise of people who grow SPS not people who repeat what they read. And stick to a plan. Do not go allover the place with RC advice. RC is awesome but it is million chefs.
 
Ted_C said:
I would partially Agree EgKid and I would also disagree.

Take it this way - when you buy hamburger from a gorcery store - do you expect it to contain e-Coli?
When you buy a hamburger from mcDonalds do you expect to get sick from it (well - ok - maybe a bad example - McDonalds never really does agree with me).

The point is - these people are selling a product and they have become experts in their product. They know where e-coli comes from, how to prevent it, and how to sell untainted meat. Heck they probably even take cultures of lots within their meat to ensure there is no e-coli.

Your not expected to be able to observe e-coli in the store when you purchase your product right (or to even understand what it is)? You trust they did their job. if they don't - they get identified by the FDA and face civil and criminal litigation.

I expect the same from my LFS. I expect my LFS to observe their environments and to understand what they have and to be an expert in what they are selling.

If the vermatid did come in on the frogspawn frag- they didn't appear magically. I bet the LFS is infested with Vermatid. Either the LFS knows and doesn't care or the LFS is not an expert and doesn't realize there is an issue or an interaction between vermetids and SPS.

The part I agree with: I may not have stated how I am 99% SPS and only wanted the frogspawn for the clowns. I also did not know that vermetid would react in such a way to undata. As far as I know - Vermetid can get along with softies just fine (or maybe not - heck I dunno). I'm also getting pushback and skepticism in another thread I have that vermetid may not have caused my issue with the undata which makes me question if my observation is holding up.

Another partial agreement: if the LFS only sells softies and has no SPS for sale and doesn't pretend to be an expert between softies and SPS interactions - then I'd give that one to you too (assuming softies are not affected by vermetid).
Click to expand...

If you want corals as sterile as hamburger you would have to expose them to gamma radiation. I am pretty sure that is how they kill the pathogens on hamburger meat.

It would be physically impossible for LFS to do what you are expecting them to do. Some shops have thousands of corals, if not millions if we start counting polyps, incredible biodiversity in their tanks, whether it is live rock, sand, eggcrate, frag plugs, overflows, pipe, etc. I have seen a couple of amphipods living on a frag plug under the coral frag. I have seen a frag plugs with at least 6 alga on it. We have LFS with thousands of frag plugs, do you expect them to sterilize every one of them every day. Since ones they are "clean" they go back to the aquarium and biodiversity "attacks" the plug again. Now do not get me wrong, I am not excusing a situation of filthy frag tanks with thousands of Aiptasias and more Bubble Algae then polyps. But at the same time I do not expect the impossible.
 
they are pretty much gone at this point (from rejuvenating the rock with a bleach bath and acid bath).

The urchin did ok - but there was still plenty more in the rock.
 
mine are still going strong even growing on the glass now in the tank, and even growing on the glass in the sump I can see them inside of my overflow tube and in the overflow compartment, they only seem to bother my zoas and palys the corals are retreating or dying, not trying to steal your thread just we have talked in the past about the vertimid pest.....
 
easyreef said:
The SPS in the photos are 100% guaranteed not dying from the vermetid snails. Noticed some of the frags you bought grew perfectly with the snails before you got them. My LFS has awesome Blue Tort colony, not frag, with vermetids as well...."
Click to expand...

There is nothing like absolute certainty in the face of evidence to the contrary. :worried::reading::wildone:

ichthyman said:
For the doubters,

The vermetid gastropod Dendropoma maximum reduces coral growth and survival by Jeffrey S. Shima1, Craig W. Osenberg2, and Adrian C. Stier 2010


The simplified version,

Google "Vermetid snails are bad for stony corals, coral crabs keep em in check"

Read them.

Fact is science knows very little on the biology and interaction within their environment of Vermetids. While they are typically just annoying snot machines in our tanks the possibility exists that these snails are doing exactly what TedC is suggesting.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
lol - I was just going to let it go...

Troll-Face-Do-not-feed-the-trolls.jpg
 
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