170 Gallon Moonview Library set up
- Thread starter jglackin
- Start date
sellout007
New member
Do you have enough flow to move the food around when you feed? If not that could really be counter productive. The food might just fall into your rocks instead of moving around.
And I am still not so sure why you add so much phyto and cyclops to the tank.
And I am still not so sure why you add so much phyto and cyclops to the tank.
jglackin
New member
I have a koralia 4 that I will leave on while feeding. It will collect gunk as well, but not as much as if I was running the 2 tunzes and the koralia. I'll just clean the koralia more often.
I may not need to feed as much as I do, but I believe that heavy feeding, as long as you can keep the water within reasonable limits, is a good thing.
I may not need to feed as much as I do, but I believe that heavy feeding, as long as you can keep the water within reasonable limits, is a good thing.
sellout007
New member
You should feed as much as the tank needs. Feeding more or *heavy* is not going to do any good and is probably going to cause problems. What corals do you have that needs DT's and cyclo every day? I haven't followed the thread the whole way but I didn't think you had that many corals in the tank to begin with.
Its your tank and all, but all I see is bad things comming out of feeding that much.
Then again, im no expert. O)
Its your tank and all, but all I see is bad things comming out of feeding that much.
Then again, im no expert. O)
Jim, it looks like you are trying to justify feeding that much. At first you were trying to get your water into "ideal parameters," now it sounds like you are settling for "acceptable parameters." What are you looking to gain from over feeding? It is really only costing you money in the extra food and the extra maintenance.
jglackin
New member
No, not at all. I really appreciate the advice from you and Sellout, but, I do not consider my water "within parameters" right now. My nitrates are too high. *IF* cleaning out my tunzes and turning them off during feeding results in my nitrates coming down to less than 2, I would see no need to feed less than I am now. If cleaning out my tunzes does not bring the nitrates down, I will have no choice but to feed less.
Then again, feeding "a lot" is relative. What I may be describing as "a large amount", might be something that you would shrug off as being not that much at all.
I just want to feed as much as I can and still keep my water within parameters. A well fed tank grows lots of healthy sea critters.
Then again, feeding "a lot" is relative. What I may be describing as "a large amount", might be something that you would shrug off as being not that much at all.
I just want to feed as much as I can and still keep my water within parameters. A well fed tank grows lots of healthy sea critters.
jglackin
New member
Ok, now this time I *really* think that I have found the cause of my nitrate problem.
I have been throwing live rotifers into my fuge every night (you should see all the pods!). Tonight, after I threw the rotifers into the fuge, as I was watching the pods and mysids emerge to feast, I noticed that I need to have a little more flow through the fuge, because I want most of the rotifers to get pumped up to the main tank. I adjusted the drain pipe to allow more water to flow out, thereby lowering the water level in the fuge, but then decided to increase the flow into the fuge from the main tank. Recently, I just the flow from the main tank completely off. The only flow into my fuge is the water exiting my carbon reactor. The pump for the reactor is in the sump and then the reactor empties into the fuge. I like to keep the water flow through my fuge to a minimum. So, I open up the ball valve that controls the water flow into the fuge and, as soon as I opened it, the smell almost knocked me over. Because I shut off this valve, there was no flow through the pipe and the water trapped in the pipe was putrid. This had to be leaking nitrates into the tank. It can't imagine that it wouldn't be.
Now I have the valve cracked open, at least to let some water trickle through, to prevent this from happening again. We'll see. I blew all of the rocks out yesterday with a power head. I will do it again tomorrow and then do a 20% water change and see if this makes any kind of difference.
Here are the water parameters from last Sunday:
PO4 - 0.2
pH - 8.02
NO2 - .0018
NH3 - 0.01
NO3 - 8.8 !!!!
Sal - 32.8 (low)
The nitrates have actually risen since the last test two weeks ago.
I have been throwing live rotifers into my fuge every night (you should see all the pods!). Tonight, after I threw the rotifers into the fuge, as I was watching the pods and mysids emerge to feast, I noticed that I need to have a little more flow through the fuge, because I want most of the rotifers to get pumped up to the main tank. I adjusted the drain pipe to allow more water to flow out, thereby lowering the water level in the fuge, but then decided to increase the flow into the fuge from the main tank. Recently, I just the flow from the main tank completely off. The only flow into my fuge is the water exiting my carbon reactor. The pump for the reactor is in the sump and then the reactor empties into the fuge. I like to keep the water flow through my fuge to a minimum. So, I open up the ball valve that controls the water flow into the fuge and, as soon as I opened it, the smell almost knocked me over. Because I shut off this valve, there was no flow through the pipe and the water trapped in the pipe was putrid. This had to be leaking nitrates into the tank. It can't imagine that it wouldn't be.
Now I have the valve cracked open, at least to let some water trickle through, to prevent this from happening again. We'll see. I blew all of the rocks out yesterday with a power head. I will do it again tomorrow and then do a 20% water change and see if this makes any kind of difference.
Here are the water parameters from last Sunday:
PO4 - 0.2
pH - 8.02
NO2 - .0018
NH3 - 0.01
NO3 - 8.8 !!!!
Sal - 32.8 (low)
The nitrates have actually risen since the last test two weeks ago.
NewSchool04
New member
I think you're over feeding Jim. Just feed the fish some high grade flake, a little Rods food every now and then and be done with it. Your corals are going to get plenty to thrive. Let the tank balance itself out without you pouring food into it.
maxxII
Super Housemonkey!
I have to agree with NewSchool04.
What you were smelling was anerobic bacteria producing hydrogen sulfide, (rotten egg smell). Anerobic bacteria actually reduce nitrates, not produce them. If you look up information on a coil denitrator, the gist is basically a long tube with a very slow flow of water through it. The long slow flow allows anerobic bacteria to grow, and they pull the nitrates from the water that passes through the tube....
I would suggest you keep doing water changes and reduce the food you throw in the tank. Rotifers are heavy in nitrates....
Nick
badazztealcobra
New member
What is the actual stock list of the tank at the moment ??
It sounds to me like you're putting WAY too much food into the tank as well, but I'm far from an expert.... In my old nano and now in my brothers nano, its pellets for the fish every other day and rods once, MAYBE twice a week for the fish and corals.... All my coral and his coral and fish are doing great. You're talking about multiple feedings with an auto feeder, plus rods, reef chili, phyto, etc... That just sounds like a TON of food.
I read this entire post again and didnt ever see an actual stock list of current fish and corals.... This information might help out.
Also one of your posts said you fed a pinky size piece of rods food, are you meaning pinky nail or an entire pinky... A pinky sized piece of rods food is a TON of food....
It sounds to me like you're putting WAY too much food into the tank as well, but I'm far from an expert.... In my old nano and now in my brothers nano, its pellets for the fish every other day and rods once, MAYBE twice a week for the fish and corals.... All my coral and his coral and fish are doing great. You're talking about multiple feedings with an auto feeder, plus rods, reef chili, phyto, etc... That just sounds like a TON of food.
I read this entire post again and didnt ever see an actual stock list of current fish and corals.... This information might help out.
Also one of your posts said you fed a pinky size piece of rods food, are you meaning pinky nail or an entire pinky... A pinky sized piece of rods food is a TON of food....
jglackin
New member
The nitrates are perplexing to me. I am down to two small auto-feeings per day, hand feeding mysids to my sun corals and lps corals every 2 or 3 days and Rod's every 2 days. I am not using reef chili, cyclop-eeze, or anything else. I am adding phyto, which by all accounts, is nearly impossible to overfeed and I am not adding that much. And I am adding live rotifers to the fuge.
I have a total water volume of 220 gallons. I have 2 false percs, a 3.5" yellow tang, a 4" hippo tang, a 4" blue throat trigger, a 3.5" clown tang, a 3" bicolor blenny, a 3" spot tail blenny, a 1" clown goby, and a .75" yellow clown goby. I have many turbo and margarite snails, nasaurius snails, blue leg hermits, and 2 sand sifting cucumbers.
On the coral side of things, I have mostly frags. I have bubble corals, zooanthids, a couple of open brains, favias, acans, 2 frog spawn with a combined total of 7 heads, about 15 clove polyps, lots of mushrooms, and various small frags of sps.
I don't believe that my bioload is that high at all. Especially with a 4" dsb with a plenum and a turf scrubber.
glassbox-design
New member
jim, i'd still consider your new feeding schedule over feeding.
rod's food, i love the stuff, but a little bit goes a long way. feed it one a week tops until you get your N and P levels in check. it can foul a tank quickly if you're not careful.
live rotifers, they're great, but more waste produced.
phyto, very easily can be OD'd.
mysis, loaded with po4. thaw it out and use a brine shrimp net to minimize the po4 input.
i know you like the critters, but you need to play the balancing act if you want to get your trates and phosphates down. if your growing pods etc just to grow them, then that's fine. but if you want them to be natural foods, let them. you may want to stick to a lagoonal lps/softy tank, as they'd enjoy the heavy feedings.
are you prunning macro/cleaning the ats? be sure you are exporting it and not just letting it grow larger and larger...how's the skimmer working?
also it would be my guess that you have dead spots in the rock work where food is rotting. a good filtration set up is only as good as the delivery of waste getting to it.
hth,
eric
rod's food, i love the stuff, but a little bit goes a long way. feed it one a week tops until you get your N and P levels in check. it can foul a tank quickly if you're not careful.
live rotifers, they're great, but more waste produced.
phyto, very easily can be OD'd.
mysis, loaded with po4. thaw it out and use a brine shrimp net to minimize the po4 input.
i know you like the critters, but you need to play the balancing act if you want to get your trates and phosphates down. if your growing pods etc just to grow them, then that's fine. but if you want them to be natural foods, let them. you may want to stick to a lagoonal lps/softy tank, as they'd enjoy the heavy feedings.
are you prunning macro/cleaning the ats? be sure you are exporting it and not just letting it grow larger and larger...how's the skimmer working?
also it would be my guess that you have dead spots in the rock work where food is rotting. a good filtration set up is only as good as the delivery of waste getting to it.
hth,
eric
jglackin
New member
Thanks. All good feedback. I'll cut down on the Rod's and see how that goes. I do strain and drain the mysis before adding them to the tank. I don't like the milky water that surrounds them in the frozen pack. As far as phyto, I'll let others beg to differ with you on that, but I am definitely not over feeding the phyto, even if you could easily do it.
I have been cropping down the macro in the ts about once a month. It is growing very well, so, if I don't, it will over grow. The skimmer is pulling a lot of foam. It's an AE400, which is much larger than is required for a 220 system, but then I only run it about 18 hours a day. Up until last week, I was having some issues with the programming of my ACIII, where the pump would kick off and the skimmer would stay on and then overflow and wash the skimmate into the sump. I have corrected this now, so I should not show any issues from that. I posted something last week about my DC8 crashing on me and the skimmer overflowing and washing the skimmate into the tank. I have figured that the spike to 8 on the nitrates may have been linked to that. I am going to test my water in a few minutes to see where the nitrates stand. Stay tuned.
I have a koralia 4 and two tunze 6055s on a controller and then the returns from the pump. The koralia is on the back wall facing the front wall and the tunzes are at each end facing each other. Of the 4 lockline returns from the pump, I have one from each side of the tank pointed down into the back corner of the tank and the other one from each end pointed down into the front bottom corner of the tank in front of the overflow box. I am going to get 2 more 6055s, as I would like more flow, but with the many detrivores I have in the tank, I would expect that any left over food, if any, is being devoured by the crabs and snails.
I am going to blow out the rocks and do a 15 to 20% water change today and see how that goes.
Great advice, all of you. It is very much appreciated.
I have been cropping down the macro in the ts about once a month. It is growing very well, so, if I don't, it will over grow. The skimmer is pulling a lot of foam. It's an AE400, which is much larger than is required for a 220 system, but then I only run it about 18 hours a day. Up until last week, I was having some issues with the programming of my ACIII, where the pump would kick off and the skimmer would stay on and then overflow and wash the skimmate into the sump. I have corrected this now, so I should not show any issues from that. I posted something last week about my DC8 crashing on me and the skimmer overflowing and washing the skimmate into the tank. I have figured that the spike to 8 on the nitrates may have been linked to that. I am going to test my water in a few minutes to see where the nitrates stand. Stay tuned.
I have a koralia 4 and two tunze 6055s on a controller and then the returns from the pump. The koralia is on the back wall facing the front wall and the tunzes are at each end facing each other. Of the 4 lockline returns from the pump, I have one from each side of the tank pointed down into the back corner of the tank and the other one from each end pointed down into the front bottom corner of the tank in front of the overflow box. I am going to get 2 more 6055s, as I would like more flow, but with the many detrivores I have in the tank, I would expect that any left over food, if any, is being devoured by the crabs and snails.
I am going to blow out the rocks and do a 15 to 20% water change today and see how that goes.
Great advice, all of you. It is very much appreciated.
sellout007
New member
Try taking a power head and blasting your rock. See how much junk comes flying out.
sellout007
New member
Just remember, the nitrates are coming from somewhere. They aren't coming out of think air. O)
Even if you don't want to think your overfeeding, or if you think your filtration setup can handle over feeding, it might not be able to.
Even if you don't want to think your overfeeding, or if you think your filtration setup can handle over feeding, it might not be able to.
badazztealcobra
New member
+1 to his statement.... You keep saying you dont think you're overfeeding and that you dont think you can overdo the phyto but you're still having nitrate problems that have to be coming from somewhere...
Also, your system is relatively new. I dont know much about plenums and DSB's, but I would guess they take some time to get up to optimum efficiency as with basically everything in this hobby. :lol:
jglackin
New member
You may be right, but, again, I have cut back the feeding, so we will see.
A question for you guys: How do you test your nitrates? Which test kit do you use? I just tested my water with an Instant Ocean test kit and, quite honestly, it is lame. I guess I am spoiled by using a Hach spectrophotometer to test my water. The lowest level on the color strip is 10. So, when I hold my test up to the light, my test looks like zero, but I highly doubt this. What is the range on your test color chip and how do you really know your nitrates are zero?
This is not a "back at you", by any means. I am digging the advice and feedback, but I am very curious. For any of you that say that you have zero on phosphates, nitrites, and nitrates, I would be interested in testing your water on the spectrophotometers at the Shedd, just to see if we are really talking zero. I have tested friends' water, water from other volunteers and employees, and many tanks at the Shedd, I have never seen zero on the phosphates and never zero on the nitrates.
Anybody up for this?
A question for you guys: How do you test your nitrates? Which test kit do you use? I just tested my water with an Instant Ocean test kit and, quite honestly, it is lame. I guess I am spoiled by using a Hach spectrophotometer to test my water. The lowest level on the color strip is 10. So, when I hold my test up to the light, my test looks like zero, but I highly doubt this. What is the range on your test color chip and how do you really know your nitrates are zero?
This is not a "back at you", by any means. I am digging the advice and feedback, but I am very curious. For any of you that say that you have zero on phosphates, nitrites, and nitrates, I would be interested in testing your water on the spectrophotometers at the Shedd, just to see if we are really talking zero. I have tested friends' water, water from other volunteers and employees, and many tanks at the Shedd, I have never seen zero on the phosphates and never zero on the nitrates.
Anybody up for this?
jglackin
New member
That may work, but you didn't answer my question. How do you test your nitrates and how do you know they are zero? What is the bottom range of your nitrate test kit? For the IO, the bottom is 10. Anything below 10 in nitrates can easily be read as zero.
I can get away with testing one or two samples, but a group of people's samples may be tough. I'll check and see if this is an issue and let you know.
I can get away with testing one or two samples, but a group of people's samples may be tough. I'll check and see if this is an issue and let you know.
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