2 dead fish in QT

[neiltus]

This one is beyond me.

Have a pair of wrasses in QT, a Tanaka and a Rhomboid. They arrived on 11/29, were given a formalin bath, placed into QT where they were eating. Prazi was dosed on 12/1 and 12/6.

Started TTM about a week ago, they were on their 4th transfer this morning. TTM tanks were dosed 1ml of prime on day 2.

Tanaka was floating on the surface dead, the rhomboid looked distressed, breathing heavy and just not with it.

Seachem badge showing no NH3, ran a salifert NH3 test and nothing, no NO2 via salfert. Transferred the rhomboid and he was dead within the hour.

35ppt
78 degrees
no stray voltage (i checked)
2 airstones
RODI 6 stage, mixed with red sea blue.

no smelly candles or weird cleaning things in the room.

no visible parasites, no open wounds, no signs of ammonia burns, both were taking food yesterday, although the tanaka was being very shy.
fed frozen food-thawed in 38 degree fridge, the food has been fed to my DT without issue.

My thought is a toxin of some sort for both to expire without symptoms...but how it got into the aquarium is beyond me.

Thoughts from others???

 

[gone fishin]

sorry to hear that, from your description it sounds like you had the bases covered.

It is possible that an external toxin was introduced. Although it can be tough to nail down. I had a similar issue last year and the closest I came to an answer was my wife's plant area on the other side of the basement. she was treating some plants with an antifungal spray and must have got across the room. My main tank was fine just the QT.

 

[neiltus]

Yep, poo happens. Better in the QT than the DT.

The QT are kept in an extra bathroom, never used. It's pretty bare. We don't have housekeepers and I am the only one in that room in the past week.

I am wondering if there are any bacterial/worms/viruses that have that quick of a time line for both fish to be dead after an outbreak?

 

[gone fishin]

I am not to familiar with bacterial or fungal infections. I have not really had to deal with them. I do know brook and velvet are very fast killers.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389659

In the link there is a diagnosis section. maybe it can help shed some light for you.

 

[scooter31707]

May I ask what you clean your tanks/equipment with between transfers. That's the only thing I can come up with, there was something in the water. I don't think no parasite or illness kills that quick. The only other thing would be the Prime may have been bad or the dosage was too much for their liking. Sorry to hear that. I know they were some beautiful fish.

 

[anthonys51]

This one is beyond me.

Have a pair of wrasses in QT, a Tanaka and a Rhomboid. They arrived on 11/29, were given a formalin bath, placed into QT where they were eating. Prazi was dosed on 12/1 and 12/6.

Started TTM about a week ago, they were on their 4th transfer this morning. TTM tanks were dosed 1ml of prime on day 2.

Tanaka was floating on the surface dead, the rhomboid looked distressed, breathing heavy and just not with it.

Seachem badge showing no NH3, ran a salifert NH3 test and nothing, no NO2 via salfert. Transferred the rhomboid and he was dead within the hour.

35ppt
78 degrees
no stray voltage (i checked)
2 airstones
RODI 6 stage, mixed with red sea blue.

no smelly candles or weird cleaning things in the room.

no visible parasites, no open wounds, no signs of ammonia burns, both were taking food yesterday, although the tanaka was being very shy.
fed frozen food-thawed in 38 degree fridge, the food has been fed to my DT without issue.

My thought is a toxin of some sort for both to expire without symptoms...but how it got into the aquarium is beyond me.

Thoughts from others???

just a shot in the dark and maybe i missed it, and you wrote it. but you stated you used 1 ml of prime, but never said how many gallons the ttm tank was. i know prime is very potent. think it only takes 2 drops a gallon. so how many gallons was it.

 

[Reef908]

I have lost fish in ttm before and my sucpicion was the prime I added as well. It was the only thing added to the tank and then the next day the fish was dead with no real symptoms. Now I do a transfer every 48 hours and only feed minimalon day two of each transfer (pull out uneaten food after a few min) in hopes of reducing the need for prime. Has worked well for me so far and fingers crossed it will work with the regal angel I have on the way! Sorry about the loss.

 

[neiltus]

10 gallon tank, 1ml via syringe added on morning after transfer, no subsequent dosing.

Tanks were cleaned with RODI water and some white vinegar and rinsed completely and dried via fans in a different room.

I have had concerns about using vinegar, and always do a pH test on the TTM tank after saltwater is added, just because.

The mixed saltwater was used in their tank prior and in the DT, SG was checked to match.

With both fish expiring that close without signs of parasites...I thought toxin. Running 2 airstones into a tank could 'put' aerosol into the tank pretty quick if it was released near the air pump. But I am the only one that really goes in that room.

No clue on my end. Wish I could learn something from this though.

I did run a mild solution of plain bleach water in the tanks after their deaths, and rinsed with tap water + prime, then RODI water, they are going to get another rinse before being used, the airstones and tubing are tossed obviously, the heaters are new, washed with tanks as above. It's my understanding that this is an ok practice.

 

[ca1ore]

Thoughts from others???

Yeah, sometimes fish just die. Collected, transported, shipped, netted, reshipped, formalin, prazi ...... need I continue? Maybe a disease, maybe a toxin, but maybe just stress. IMO, it is better to let a fish settle in for at least a week before putting it through the treatment wringer.

 

[scooter31707]

Yeah, sometimes fish just die. Collected, transported, shipped, netted, reshipped, formalin, prazi ...... need I continue? Maybe a disease, maybe a toxin, but maybe just stress. IMO, it is better to let a fish settle in for at least a week before putting it through the treatment wringer.

I agree with this also, but in all my 3 years of this hobby, I have never lost 2 fish at the same time during TTM unless they are bought sick and not eating. In this case, the OPs fish were eating and seem healthy. It's just hard for me to believe both fish were stressed that bad. To the OP, did you accidentally have some soap, lotion, or some chemical on your hands and stuck them in the tank? Just trying to help get some thoughts.

 

[neiltus]

Yeah, sometimes fish just die. Collected, transported, shipped, netted, reshipped, formalin, prazi ...... need I continue? Maybe a disease, maybe a toxin, but maybe just stress. IMO, it is better to let a fish settle in for at least a week before putting it through the treatment wringer.

As in the OP, they arrived on 11/29 were dipped that day and placed in a tank. Prazi was administered on the dates in the OP, there were no transfers until almost a month after their arrival. Both ate fine after dipping through Prazi and through the night before the first was found dead.

Chalking it up as an unknown toxin, like Scooter mentions, it's off that they both go belly up that quick within each other without a catalyst.