220 Inwall - Plan
- Thread starter bheron
- Start date
- Status
bheron
Active member
Thanks all - was away over the weekend and it was great to come back and see some more good input.
Knyght - "Can`t think of anything useful to comment about except Weatherson`s suggestion for leveling. That is by far the best option longterm."
- I agree. Limited timing, tools and expereince resulted in my not trying this. I think it is the best idea. My contractor even liked it!! :eek2:
Briankook - "bheron, your setup is looking great. Your exhaust fan is set up exactly like mine. I also have a humidistat, but I don't even need to use the controller, it just stays on all the time. I use the on/off switch instead."
- Thanks! I wonder if I'll just wind up leaving it on all the time. I'll have to check out your thread in a moment. Hopefully you'll have some stuff on there about the humidistat. Melev has some good stuff too.
melev - "Well, this is really not going to sound like the way I typically post, but your contractor is full of crap! OMG! "
- thank you for the shared emotions here! thanks for agreeing, too. i'll give more feedback on the guy in my next post.
"Using plastic shims repetitively would disperse the weight over a larger area. When homes are leveled, oak shims are used because of their hardness and tend to handle humidity and resist the tiny teeth of termites."
- hmm, didnt think of plastic ones. saw some "mdf" type ones at HD last night. i'll going into more detail next.
"Floating the floor with a concrete bed to get everything level from the ground up is great, but your stand is already built. It's too late for that, right?"
-Yep! Definitely. plus, that idea scared the HE** outta me! I didnt even start to figure out a way to explain that one to the misses.
"Feel free to tell you contractor that Melev's P.O.'d. I bet that will get him to shape up quick! "
:lol: !!! once again, thanks for backing me up. I consider myself a student in this area and knowing that you backed up my hunches made me feel much better.
Mulligan - "Somethin ain't right one inch off level the concrete in your basement will have a little slope to it not an inch over 6 feet."
- I know! its def not off that much. Its a 3yr old house built by a top builder.
"So your paying this guy he should build it level each leg should have been cut to follow the contour of the basement floor,keeping the top level."
-Ah! therein lies the difference. I didnt pay him to build the stand. I built it myself and told him he wasnt responsible for it. However, when he decided to nail it into the floor and make it off-level, THEN he was responsible for it.
I really wanted the experience of building the stand myself and it was well worth it.
"I know you prolly don't want to fall out with him as contractors are hard to come by but he needs to do his job."
- youre exactly right. he does great work at a great price. he's just a royal pain in the *** to work with sometimes. He knows nothing about the aquariums, as I wouldnt expect him to. But when he challenges my input we just clash! He did it when finishing our last basement, too.
- Also, nice work on the trim. never heard of, or saw that plastic bullhead trim stuff. looks cool.
Thanks for the feedback all! I'll post the resolution of the issue in the next post shortly!
Bryan
Knyght - "Can`t think of anything useful to comment about except Weatherson`s suggestion for leveling. That is by far the best option longterm."
- I agree. Limited timing, tools and expereince resulted in my not trying this. I think it is the best idea. My contractor even liked it!! :eek2:
Briankook - "bheron, your setup is looking great. Your exhaust fan is set up exactly like mine. I also have a humidistat, but I don't even need to use the controller, it just stays on all the time. I use the on/off switch instead."
- Thanks! I wonder if I'll just wind up leaving it on all the time. I'll have to check out your thread in a moment. Hopefully you'll have some stuff on there about the humidistat. Melev has some good stuff too.
melev - "Well, this is really not going to sound like the way I typically post, but your contractor is full of crap! OMG! "
- thank you for the shared emotions here! thanks for agreeing, too. i'll give more feedback on the guy in my next post.
"Using plastic shims repetitively would disperse the weight over a larger area. When homes are leveled, oak shims are used because of their hardness and tend to handle humidity and resist the tiny teeth of termites."
- hmm, didnt think of plastic ones. saw some "mdf" type ones at HD last night. i'll going into more detail next.
"Floating the floor with a concrete bed to get everything level from the ground up is great, but your stand is already built. It's too late for that, right?"
-Yep! Definitely. plus, that idea scared the HE** outta me! I didnt even start to figure out a way to explain that one to the misses.
"Feel free to tell you contractor that Melev's P.O.'d. I bet that will get him to shape up quick! "
:lol: !!! once again, thanks for backing me up. I consider myself a student in this area and knowing that you backed up my hunches made me feel much better.
Mulligan - "Somethin ain't right one inch off level the concrete in your basement will have a little slope to it not an inch over 6 feet."
- I know! its def not off that much. Its a 3yr old house built by a top builder.
"So your paying this guy he should build it level each leg should have been cut to follow the contour of the basement floor,keeping the top level."
-Ah! therein lies the difference. I didnt pay him to build the stand. I built it myself and told him he wasnt responsible for it. However, when he decided to nail it into the floor and make it off-level, THEN he was responsible for it.
I really wanted the experience of building the stand myself and it was well worth it.
"I know you prolly don't want to fall out with him as contractors are hard to come by but he needs to do his job."
- youre exactly right. he does great work at a great price. he's just a royal pain in the *** to work with sometimes. He knows nothing about the aquariums, as I wouldnt expect him to. But when he challenges my input we just clash! He did it when finishing our last basement, too.
- Also, nice work on the trim. never heard of, or saw that plastic bullhead trim stuff. looks cool.
Thanks for the feedback all! I'll post the resolution of the issue in the next post shortly!
Bryan
bheron
Active member
Now, details on how (I think) I resolved the leveling issue.
The whole leveling problem started when my contractor decided to "shoot" my tank to the floor using on of those 22 caliber nailguns. Thats when he got himself involved with the stand.
I just told him to "build" around the stand and not to worry about it. We discussed how it would need to be secured in order to drywall, trim, and carpet the area. Cool, understood. He said he would shoot it to the floor. Cool! As long as its leveled, I said. (I've explained several times the reasoning).
Here's a shot of the tank - see if you can notice the blocks of wood "inside" of my bottom frame.
They attached 8 pieces of pressure treated wood to the inside of my bottom frame, which I painted with the Kilz. The plan was to then nail these into the floor.
Well, after they shot it to the floor it was worse than ever. Thats when the debate started.
Essentially I'm working with a guy who can never admit when he wrong. NEVER! And I know this and have ways with working with him. Well, I was out to lunch with some friends Friday afternoon when he called about the whole leveling thing. I'm one of the most laid back people and, to a fault, avoid controversies when I can. Put it this way, my buddies said they'd never seen me so worked up after I got off the phone with him. I left it that I would figure out a way to fix the problem since the thing was already shot into the floor and the drywallers were finishing over the weekend.
The whole leveling problem started when my contractor decided to "shoot" my tank to the floor using on of those 22 caliber nailguns. Thats when he got himself involved with the stand.
I just told him to "build" around the stand and not to worry about it. We discussed how it would need to be secured in order to drywall, trim, and carpet the area. Cool, understood. He said he would shoot it to the floor. Cool! As long as its leveled, I said. (I've explained several times the reasoning).
Here's a shot of the tank - see if you can notice the blocks of wood "inside" of my bottom frame.
They attached 8 pieces of pressure treated wood to the inside of my bottom frame, which I painted with the Kilz. The plan was to then nail these into the floor.
Well, after they shot it to the floor it was worse than ever. Thats when the debate started.
Essentially I'm working with a guy who can never admit when he wrong. NEVER! And I know this and have ways with working with him. Well, I was out to lunch with some friends Friday afternoon when he called about the whole leveling thing. I'm one of the most laid back people and, to a fault, avoid controversies when I can. Put it this way, my buddies said they'd never seen me so worked up after I got off the phone with him. I left it that I would figure out a way to fix the problem since the thing was already shot into the floor and the drywallers were finishing over the weekend.
bheron
Active member
(so sorry if this is boring anyone. just figured I'd give some background to my cries for help on friday)
So...here's what I did to resolve it (again, I think
And all of this was done last night, starting at about 8pm.
First I had to "undo" some handywork. I spent an hour ripping out the pressure treaded blocks from the floor.
Unfortunately, they nailed them into the tank instead of screwing them.
So I found out I was screwed trying to remove them.
Surprisingly, the "shooting" technique doesnt secure the nails as much as you'd think.
Took about an hour to undo everything.
Earlier in the night I stopped at HD for their opinions on what I learned from all of you as well as any other ideas.
I was just about to buy a piece of the hardboard when one final idea came up:
What do you think of these?
Essentially the idea was to create my own metal shims out of 1/16" pieces of these:
I also bought some straight pieces for the middle verticals:
I really like this idea the best since
A) I wouldnt have to cut anything
and
B) I wouldnt have to worry about them being crushed under the weight.
Here's how I put them to work:
First, I leveled the whole thing to my satisfaction.
Then I used a wooden shim to determine just how much space was underneath each of the 8 vertical uprights (not all of them had space).
You can see the wooden shim in the pic above.
I marked each one and then figured out how many of the metal shims I'd need to fill the space.
I then taped them together for a quick hold while I screwed them into the bottom of the stand with flat head wood screws:
Thats the end result. I used the smaller, straight shims on the middle verts.
I think this will work pretty good. My only concern is that the WHOLE part of the vertical is not touching a shim.
When I was finshed, guess WHAT???
Probably hard to tell from the pic, but this baby is as level as I'm gonna get it. Much more so than before.
I would say maybe 1/16" off level from left to right, IF that.
As long as the bubble's in the middle, I'll be happy.
We'll just have to see if this idea holds out.
Of course, all opinions are still welcome up until when the tank goes on the stand with water (which is still weeks away).
Thanks again all.
So...here's what I did to resolve it (again, I think
And all of this was done last night, starting at about 8pm.
First I had to "undo" some handywork. I spent an hour ripping out the pressure treaded blocks from the floor.
Unfortunately, they nailed them into the tank instead of screwing them.
So I found out I was screwed trying to remove them.
Surprisingly, the "shooting" technique doesnt secure the nails as much as you'd think.
Took about an hour to undo everything.
Earlier in the night I stopped at HD for their opinions on what I learned from all of you as well as any other ideas.
I was just about to buy a piece of the hardboard when one final idea came up:
What do you think of these?
Essentially the idea was to create my own metal shims out of 1/16" pieces of these:
I also bought some straight pieces for the middle verticals:
I really like this idea the best since
A) I wouldnt have to cut anything
and
B) I wouldnt have to worry about them being crushed under the weight.
Here's how I put them to work:
First, I leveled the whole thing to my satisfaction.
Then I used a wooden shim to determine just how much space was underneath each of the 8 vertical uprights (not all of them had space).
You can see the wooden shim in the pic above.
I marked each one and then figured out how many of the metal shims I'd need to fill the space.
I then taped them together for a quick hold while I screwed them into the bottom of the stand with flat head wood screws:
Thats the end result. I used the smaller, straight shims on the middle verts.
I think this will work pretty good. My only concern is that the WHOLE part of the vertical is not touching a shim.
When I was finshed, guess WHAT???
Probably hard to tell from the pic, but this baby is as level as I'm gonna get it. Much more so than before.
I would say maybe 1/16" off level from left to right, IF that.
As long as the bubble's in the middle, I'll be happy.
We'll just have to see if this idea holds out.
Of course, all opinions are still welcome up until when the tank goes on the stand with water (which is still weeks away).
Thanks again all.
bheron
Active member
You know, Marc, it really cant be. I dont understand how I needed almost 1" of shim under the largest gap. If you go back a few pages when I first built the stand, I think theres a pic of the largest gap being 1/4" off the ground.
I'm thinking it was either:
a) just a freak spot on the floor where the stand sat in its final postion
b) something that happened to the stand when they shot it into the ground
c) maybe the wood settled since I first built it, so the stand is now not as level?
cause I didnt do anything to it that would cause a much larger gap.
I'm thinking it was either:
a) just a freak spot on the floor where the stand sat in its final postion
b) something that happened to the stand when they shot it into the ground
c) maybe the wood settled since I first built it, so the stand is now not as level?
cause I didnt do anything to it that would cause a much larger gap.
weatherson
Premium Member
Yes, but is your level... level? 
I'd double check it since there is such a discrepancy from the original findings. Here's a quick and simple way to do this: Get a piece of clear hose that's slightly larger diameter that air-line tubing. Say 1/4" to 1/2" inside diameter. Get it in a length of about 8' to 10'. Fill it with water leaving about 1' of air at both ends and be sure to remove all air elsewhere within the hose. Carefully hold both ends slightly higher than the top of the stand with each end at one corner. Slowly raise or lower one end of the hose until the water line settles at the exact top edge of the stand. Then simply look at the other end to see where the water level sits. This technique works better than a level for its finer accuracy.
I feel the metal shims will work with a couple of caveats. I'd add more throughout the span of the boards so the total weight isn't just at the corners. There'd be greater integrity if the weight was disbursed more. Also, long term wise, expect them to rust. Perhaps an added barrier of a layer of Rustoleum paint would lengthen this time.
I'd double check it since there is such a discrepancy from the original findings. Here's a quick and simple way to do this: Get a piece of clear hose that's slightly larger diameter that air-line tubing. Say 1/4" to 1/2" inside diameter. Get it in a length of about 8' to 10'. Fill it with water leaving about 1' of air at both ends and be sure to remove all air elsewhere within the hose. Carefully hold both ends slightly higher than the top of the stand with each end at one corner. Slowly raise or lower one end of the hose until the water line settles at the exact top edge of the stand. Then simply look at the other end to see where the water level sits. This technique works better than a level for its finer accuracy.I feel the metal shims will work with a couple of caveats. I'd add more throughout the span of the boards so the total weight isn't just at the corners. There'd be greater integrity if the weight was disbursed more. Also, long term wise, expect them to rust. Perhaps an added barrier of a layer of Rustoleum paint would lengthen this time.
bheron
Active member
Jeez, Joseph, I have to say--- HOLY MOLY! I dont know why I didnt think of checking the level. Its times when you forget the basics that can result in large errors. Thanks for the tip.
I think I've heard about this technique before, you possibly in your thread, and I still have to read it several times. Essentially, your saying that that air bubble should occur at the same height on both ends, if its level? I get the whole part about the tubing, and even have exactly whats needed. But then I'm lost :eek2:
Also:
"I'd add more throughout the span of the boards so the total weight isn't just at the corners. There'd be greater integrity if the weight was disbursed more. Also, long term wise, expect them to rust. Perhaps an added barrier of a layer of Rustoleum paint would lengthen this time."
- I probably didnt make it clear, but I do have them under the other verticals: the 3 corners plus the 4 verticals in the middle. Is that what you meant?
- Also, the plates say they are zinc coated to prevent rust. Probably not enough? Can I use the rustoleum I bought for my tank stand to paint them?
As always, a pleasure.
I think I've heard about this technique before, you possibly in your thread, and I still have to read it several times. Essentially, your saying that that air bubble should occur at the same height on both ends, if its level? I get the whole part about the tubing, and even have exactly whats needed. But then I'm lost :eek2:
Also:
"I'd add more throughout the span of the boards so the total weight isn't just at the corners. There'd be greater integrity if the weight was disbursed more. Also, long term wise, expect them to rust. Perhaps an added barrier of a layer of Rustoleum paint would lengthen this time."
- I probably didnt make it clear, but I do have them under the other verticals: the 3 corners plus the 4 verticals in the middle. Is that what you meant?
- Also, the plates say they are zinc coated to prevent rust. Probably not enough? Can I use the rustoleum I bought for my tank stand to paint them?
As always, a pleasure.
weatherson
Premium Member
A picture will probably do a better job of explaining...
Yes. Just so you have plenty of points where the weight of the tank is transferred to the floor.
That would be better than nothing but you can get a spray can of metal Rustoleum paint that would be more than enough to cover them all for cheap. I'm sure they'd be fine for many years without this but since they are accessible now, why not?
Joseph
Yes. Just so you have plenty of points where the weight of the tank is transferred to the floor.
That would be better than nothing but you can get a spray can of metal Rustoleum paint that would be more than enough to cover them all for cheap. I'm sure they'd be fine for many years without this but since they are accessible now, why not?
Joseph
bheron
Active member
I got it! So the water level on both ends of the hose has to be at the same height - then compare that with the stand? got it. and thats much more accurate than an actual leveling tool.
ok, will have to do that tonight to double check the whole thing.
-- also, was thinking earlier that another good way might be to get a shallow container the same length and width of the tank itself. draw a water line around the whole thing, fill it with water, simulating the tank itself. then I could see how far off level it will be. the trick is to get a 6' x 2' plastic container, which I dont have. just an idea.
"Just so you have plenty of points where the weight of the tank is transferred to the floor."
- I do. But my concern was that the whole face of the 2x4 wood may not be touching the floor. it goes - 2x4, then shim, then floor. is that ok?
- I think we have a can of rustoleum around so i'll spray them tonight.
thanks.
ok, will have to do that tonight to double check the whole thing.
-- also, was thinking earlier that another good way might be to get a shallow container the same length and width of the tank itself. draw a water line around the whole thing, fill it with water, simulating the tank itself. then I could see how far off level it will be. the trick is to get a 6' x 2' plastic container, which I dont have. just an idea.
"Just so you have plenty of points where the weight of the tank is transferred to the floor."
- I do. But my concern was that the whole face of the 2x4 wood may not be touching the floor. it goes - 2x4, then shim, then floor. is that ok?
- I think we have a can of rustoleum around so i'll spray them tonight.
thanks.
melev
Well-known member
Bryan, what concerns me is that you will have so much weight pressing down on the stand. I just have this feeling the wood will yield to the metal, and over time the wood will crush inwardly so that the metal is imbedded into the base of the stand. If it does this, odds are the stand won't be level still.
I really can't think of a neat example that makes this clear. As Joseph pointed out, more shims would disperse the weight over more area, instead of focusing all the weight on those specific 1/2" strips of metal.
I really can't think of a neat example that makes this clear. As Joseph pointed out, more shims would disperse the weight over more area, instead of focusing all the weight on those specific 1/2" strips of metal.
melev
Well-known member
Nope. That was my own concern. Filling up the void with lots of strips would be better. Or if you want to get very meticulous, you could pretty much cut wood at the specific thickness necessary and glue these to the base of the stand at every area not touching the floor. This will be tedious, but far more consistent. Then you could paint everything and feel really secure about the future of your reef. I mean, if you have the time to tackle this, why not just put 110% into getting the foundation of your tank absolutely perfect?
Btw, if it was far better before it was shot into the floor, I'd start looking at the uprights and make sure there aren't some glaring gaps between them and the top or bottom frame. Maybe they were pulled apart. Once thousands of pounds are pressing straight down, it may compress all of these back together again.
Are you planning to put a sheet of foam on top of the platform to even out the surface beneath the tank?
Btw, if it was far better before it was shot into the floor, I'd start looking at the uprights and make sure there aren't some glaring gaps between them and the top or bottom frame. Maybe they were pulled apart. Once thousands of pounds are pressing straight down, it may compress all of these back together again.
Are you planning to put a sheet of foam on top of the platform to even out the surface beneath the tank?
bheron
Active member
"Or if you want to get very meticulous, you could pretty much cut wood at the specific thickness necessary and glue these to the base of the stand at every area not touching the floor."
-Thats kind of what I was going to do before - cut out custom shims, or really pieces of 2x4 uprights to fit underneath. Youre talking about supporting just the uprights, or do you also mean the horizontal frame as well? Either way, its a good idea. I can easily cut out extra support pieces and place them underneath.
"why not just put 110% into getting the foundation of your tank absolutely perfect?"
- I COMPLETELY AGREE! The only way to do it, right?
"I'd start looking at the uprights and make sure there aren't some glaring gaps between them and the top or bottom frame. Maybe they were pulled apart."
- Yea, I can check. I've got a pretty good vantage point but its always possible. Gotta be something, and that might be it.
"Are you planning to put a sheet of foam on top of the platform to even out the surface beneath the tank?"
- You know, Ive heard and read so much about this but I havent decided for sure. On one hand, its not certain it helps, but on the other hand, it cant hurt. I think you did it, I'm pretty sure if I remember. I beleive the idea is to smooth out imperfections in the surface. Do you think its worth it?
-Thats kind of what I was going to do before - cut out custom shims, or really pieces of 2x4 uprights to fit underneath. Youre talking about supporting just the uprights, or do you also mean the horizontal frame as well? Either way, its a good idea. I can easily cut out extra support pieces and place them underneath.
"why not just put 110% into getting the foundation of your tank absolutely perfect?"
- I COMPLETELY AGREE! The only way to do it, right?
"I'd start looking at the uprights and make sure there aren't some glaring gaps between them and the top or bottom frame. Maybe they were pulled apart."
- Yea, I can check. I've got a pretty good vantage point but its always possible. Gotta be something, and that might be it.
"Are you planning to put a sheet of foam on top of the platform to even out the surface beneath the tank?"
- You know, Ive heard and read so much about this but I havent decided for sure. On one hand, its not certain it helps, but on the other hand, it cant hurt. I think you did it, I'm pretty sure if I remember. I beleive the idea is to smooth out imperfections in the surface. Do you think its worth it?
melev
Well-known member
Bryan, I would basically endeavor to fill in every void I could. If you have a chop saw (or compound miter saw) on hand, use it to cut the exact thicknesses you need. Basically create wafers and position them one after another along all of the base of the stand. Since the woodwork looks rather thick, you might even consider using a 4x4 post to create your shims. If you opted to use treated lumber, that could only be a plus even if the stuff is so thin. It is more water resistant.
I used foam under my tank because Mitch at Interamerican told me to do so. He made my tank, so I felt his advice was the one to follow. Check with your aquarium maker and get their thoughts. You want the best possible set up, to avoid issues later.
I used foam under my tank because Mitch at Interamerican told me to do so. He made my tank, so I felt his advice was the one to follow. Check with your aquarium maker and get their thoughts. You want the best possible set up, to avoid issues later.
- Status
Similar threads
