melev
Well-known member
What size are those?
Here's a link to those clips, y'all. P1-01 : http://goodwaterwarehouse.com/jgf.html
Here's a link to those clips, y'all. P1-01 : http://goodwaterwarehouse.com/jgf.html
220 Inwall - Plan
- Thread starter bheron
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bheron
Active member
Marc, the Dursos you mean? The main part is made from 1.25" PVC - pretty big stuff (I couldnt get the thinnner, sched 26 that was recommended, so I used Sched 40 1.25"). they are about 30" in height and with the end cap, stick out slightly above the top of the tank, which is 30".
I see what you're talking about as far as the horseshoe locks. I was just at HD and didnt see any there. Can you buy these from the website you lised? doesnt look like you can.
I see what you're talking about as far as the horseshoe locks. I was just at HD and didnt see any there. Can you buy these from the website you lised? doesnt look like you can.
bheron
Active member
Long Dilemna
Long Dilemna
Ok, hereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a couple of updates on things that happened this weekend (see above for pics) that I need some feedback on:
1: Dursos/bulkheads ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ as mentioned, I built these and installed the bulkheads. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s the bulkheads Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m concerned about. Like a bunch of people already mentioned, the cheaper, plastic ones I got from MD can break if you overtighten them. Also, thereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s no usage of silicone with bulkheads. Soââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦.I installed these and just handtightened the nut on the bottom/outside of the tank. Looks and seems to work fine. I tested the seal by pouring some water (a few inches) into the overflow box. Help up pretty well. Then, the problem happened. On the outside, female, part of bulkhead I attached a male adapter and then a female screwed on a ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œball valveââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ underneath so that I can shut off the outflow of water from the overflow boxes (dumb idea?). Seems like a good plan. Anyway, I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t think thatââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s the problem. What happened was, I accidentally ââ"šÂ¬Ã‹Å“knockedââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ those plumbing parts that were attached to the bottom part of the bulkhead. I didnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t knock it hard. But, all the sudden a rush of water came out of that area. Apparently I hit it enough to completely dislodge the seal in the bulkhead! At first, I was sure I cracked either the tank, the bulkhead, or both. To my surprise, neither happened. But, bottom line, a small jolt and the whole seal opened up. Luckily I had only a few inches of water in there that spilled. My fear is that this will happen if thereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s enough pressure on the bulkhead when the tank is full. Because I have megaflows on my tank that would mean all 210 gallons of water would leak through!
- Is this normal? Do I have to retighten?
2: RODI system ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ ok, as mentioned above I had issues with connecting the RODI inlet with my cold water line. Thanks to Marc I can get something to lock it in better. But, my other area of concern is that, right now, I have it hooked up under the sink. And the only way to get in, fix it, turn the valve on and off, etc is to get on my back! Ideally, I would like to install an extension, of sorts, to the cold water line and bring it up to eye level on the wall, while at the same time installing some sort of valve to turn the source water on and off. It sounds like an easy idea, but Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve never done anything with plumbing outside of messing with PVC parts.
- Do I have to do this with copper pipes and parts? Soldering and whatnot?
- Or can accomplish this by installing some sort of PVC or flexible tubing parts?
For the fun part, the reason I ask both of these together is that I had to deal with BOTH of them at the same time while I was still fooling around with at at 11pm last night! Yep, just when my disaster above happened with the bulkheads springing a leak, I reached over to move the RODI system and the inlet line became dislodged from the copper source pipe, shooting water out at high speed! There I am with stuff all around me an water coming from two places!!! Luckily the wife was upstairs asleep and I was able to recover quickly. Needless to say the situation quickly told me I needed to a) calm down and do one thing at a time and b) get educated in plumbing topics a bit more!
Sorry for the long diatribe! If you ââ"šÂ¬Ã‹Å“ve made it this far maybe you can offer some insight? I have to go hand out my clothes to keep drying.
:rollface:
Long Dilemna
Ok, hereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a couple of updates on things that happened this weekend (see above for pics) that I need some feedback on:
1: Dursos/bulkheads ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ as mentioned, I built these and installed the bulkheads. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s the bulkheads Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m concerned about. Like a bunch of people already mentioned, the cheaper, plastic ones I got from MD can break if you overtighten them. Also, thereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s no usage of silicone with bulkheads. Soââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦.I installed these and just handtightened the nut on the bottom/outside of the tank. Looks and seems to work fine. I tested the seal by pouring some water (a few inches) into the overflow box. Help up pretty well. Then, the problem happened. On the outside, female, part of bulkhead I attached a male adapter and then a female screwed on a ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œball valveââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ underneath so that I can shut off the outflow of water from the overflow boxes (dumb idea?). Seems like a good plan. Anyway, I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t think thatââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s the problem. What happened was, I accidentally ââ"šÂ¬Ã‹Å“knockedââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ those plumbing parts that were attached to the bottom part of the bulkhead. I didnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t knock it hard. But, all the sudden a rush of water came out of that area. Apparently I hit it enough to completely dislodge the seal in the bulkhead! At first, I was sure I cracked either the tank, the bulkhead, or both. To my surprise, neither happened. But, bottom line, a small jolt and the whole seal opened up. Luckily I had only a few inches of water in there that spilled. My fear is that this will happen if thereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s enough pressure on the bulkhead when the tank is full. Because I have megaflows on my tank that would mean all 210 gallons of water would leak through!
- Is this normal? Do I have to retighten?
2: RODI system ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ ok, as mentioned above I had issues with connecting the RODI inlet with my cold water line. Thanks to Marc I can get something to lock it in better. But, my other area of concern is that, right now, I have it hooked up under the sink. And the only way to get in, fix it, turn the valve on and off, etc is to get on my back! Ideally, I would like to install an extension, of sorts, to the cold water line and bring it up to eye level on the wall, while at the same time installing some sort of valve to turn the source water on and off. It sounds like an easy idea, but Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve never done anything with plumbing outside of messing with PVC parts.
- Do I have to do this with copper pipes and parts? Soldering and whatnot?
- Or can accomplish this by installing some sort of PVC or flexible tubing parts?
For the fun part, the reason I ask both of these together is that I had to deal with BOTH of them at the same time while I was still fooling around with at at 11pm last night! Yep, just when my disaster above happened with the bulkheads springing a leak, I reached over to move the RODI system and the inlet line became dislodged from the copper source pipe, shooting water out at high speed! There I am with stuff all around me an water coming from two places!!! Luckily the wife was upstairs asleep and I was able to recover quickly. Needless to say the situation quickly told me I needed to a) calm down and do one thing at a time and b) get educated in plumbing topics a bit more!
Sorry for the long diatribe! If you ââ"šÂ¬Ã‹Å“ve made it this far maybe you can offer some insight? I have to go hand out my clothes to keep drying.
:rollface:
melev
Well-known member
The part costs .09 each, and they have a $100 minimum order. So someone has to order 1111 of those clips. 
I'm going to see if I can figure out a way, maybe getting something else.
You aren't supposed to bump your plumbing. And you aren't supposed to screw anything on the outside threads of your bulkhead, because nothing matches those but the nut that it comes with. Sounds like it was a tad loose though. Even if it gave way, it should only drain the overflow, not the entire tank.
I don't see why you'd need to modify anything under the sink just to move the RO/DI unit. Just get a longer piece of 1/4" tubing, and run it from under the sink to wherever the unit is hanging.
I'm going to see if I can figure out a way, maybe getting something else.You aren't supposed to bump your plumbing. And you aren't supposed to screw anything on the outside threads of your bulkhead, because nothing matches those but the nut that it comes with. Sounds like it was a tad loose though. Even if it gave way, it should only drain the overflow, not the entire tank.
I don't see why you'd need to modify anything under the sink just to move the RO/DI unit. Just get a longer piece of 1/4" tubing, and run it from under the sink to wherever the unit is hanging.
bheron
Active member
Damn, marc! 1111 of them! I'll take 500. JK. Wow, well, if you can come up with some way, that would be great. I sent them an email, too, but I guess I now know what to expect.
Sorry, some clarity here on my previous post:
- "You aren't supposed to bump your plumbing."
Ha! good point. My concern is that, when I have some PVC and other plumbing hooked up to the bulkhead, what if water pressure on the PVC causes minor jolts? But, youre right.
- "you aren't supposed to screw anything on the outside threads of your bulkhead."
Sorry, let me clarify. I didnt screw it onto the outside of it. I actually screwed a male adapter into the inside of the femals part of the b'head. By outside, I mean, outside of the tank, the bottom of the tank, etc.
- "Even if it gave way, it should only drain the overflow, not the entire tank."
Well, with the AGA Megaflow setup, the overflow box draws water from three levels of the tank- top, middle, and just at the bottom of the tank. So, if the bulkhead seal were to leak, couldnt that continue to pull water out to the lowest inlet in the overflow?
- "I don't see why you'd need to modify anything under the sink just to move the RO/DI unit."
Sorry, the biggest reason I want to move it if 2 fold. One, I want to be able to shut off the source water to the RODI while keeping the sink water available. Right now that valve is below the sink and tough to get to. Also, if the tube becomes disconnected, as discussed, its harder to get to shut off the source. Second, I b/c this connection of the inlet tube can be tricky, I'd like to be able to easily access it to address any problems withouth having to crawl under. Not a big deal as my bulkhead issue, but still something I was thinking of.
Hope that makes more sense!
Sorry, some clarity here on my previous post:
- "You aren't supposed to bump your plumbing."
Ha! good point. My concern is that, when I have some PVC and other plumbing hooked up to the bulkhead, what if water pressure on the PVC causes minor jolts? But, youre right.
- "you aren't supposed to screw anything on the outside threads of your bulkhead."
Sorry, let me clarify. I didnt screw it onto the outside of it. I actually screwed a male adapter into the inside of the femals part of the b'head. By outside, I mean, outside of the tank, the bottom of the tank, etc.
- "Even if it gave way, it should only drain the overflow, not the entire tank."
Well, with the AGA Megaflow setup, the overflow box draws water from three levels of the tank- top, middle, and just at the bottom of the tank. So, if the bulkhead seal were to leak, couldnt that continue to pull water out to the lowest inlet in the overflow?
- "I don't see why you'd need to modify anything under the sink just to move the RO/DI unit."
Sorry, the biggest reason I want to move it if 2 fold. One, I want to be able to shut off the source water to the RODI while keeping the sink water available. Right now that valve is below the sink and tough to get to. Also, if the tube becomes disconnected, as discussed, its harder to get to shut off the source. Second, I b/c this connection of the inlet tube can be tricky, I'd like to be able to easily access it to address any problems withouth having to crawl under. Not a big deal as my bulkhead issue, but still something I was thinking of.
Hope that makes more sense!
melev
Well-known member
Sorry, I forgot to address that other part. You can buy a 1/4" ballvalve at Home Depot for $5, and put that in the line going to the unit. I have one in the red tubing of my own, and just close the valve to change the filters. Easy! If I have to really tackle the plumbing, my washing machine must be moved out and/or disconnected. I think that would be good enough for your situation too.
The Megaflow does suck up water from multiple zones, but once the tank stops getting more water, it can't drain any more. So let's say you just kick your plumbing hard and sit back and watch the results, oh sadistic one...
Water starts gushing out of the hole where the bulkhead is jarred loose. Water gets all over the floor and the sump, and the sump's water level drops more and more. More wet floors, but at one point the sump's water level will go so low that the return pump has nothing to push up to the tank. Now that it has 'run dry' so to speak, the main tank can only drain what little bit is at the surface. The other zones of the megaflow operate a little bit like a penductor, drawing water up and over an internal baffle via suction from what pours over the top teeth. Once the top stops draining into the overflow, no other water makes it into that section any longer.
So you may have as much as 20 gallons of water on the floor, but not the entire tank's worth.
Feel better now?
You may find some ways to secure your plumbing so it can't be broken loose. And make sure those bulkheads are installed well. I do wonder if perhaps they are a tad small for the hole if they were able to pop loose so easily. But you are there and I'm not, so you'll have to ascertain that for yourself.
The Megaflow does suck up water from multiple zones, but once the tank stops getting more water, it can't drain any more. So let's say you just kick your plumbing hard and sit back and watch the results, oh sadistic one...
Water starts gushing out of the hole where the bulkhead is jarred loose. Water gets all over the floor and the sump, and the sump's water level drops more and more. More wet floors, but at one point the sump's water level will go so low that the return pump has nothing to push up to the tank. Now that it has 'run dry' so to speak, the main tank can only drain what little bit is at the surface. The other zones of the megaflow operate a little bit like a penductor, drawing water up and over an internal baffle via suction from what pours over the top teeth. Once the top stops draining into the overflow, no other water makes it into that section any longer.
So you may have as much as 20 gallons of water on the floor, but not the entire tank's worth.
Feel better now?
You may find some ways to secure your plumbing so it can't be broken loose. And make sure those bulkheads are installed well. I do wonder if perhaps they are a tad small for the hole if they were able to pop loose so easily. But you are there and I'm not, so you'll have to ascertain that for yourself.
bheron
Active member
Got it on the 1/4" ball valve idea! I just them at HD today. Thanks.
As far as the whole overflow question -- youre right! I remember seeing the whole "internal baffle section". totally missed that and I feel a whole lot better now! Thanks.
Yea, I'm gonna have to figure out if these things really are a true fit. BUt, the whole catch is that I can't overtighten them -- everyone says they've broken them in the past. So, not too tight, but not too lose. Should be pretty easy!
Thanks for the, always valuable, input.
As far as the whole overflow question -- youre right! I remember seeing the whole "internal baffle section". totally missed that and I feel a whole lot better now! Thanks.
Yea, I'm gonna have to figure out if these things really are a true fit. BUt, the whole catch is that I can't overtighten them -- everyone says they've broken them in the past. So, not too tight, but not too lose. Should be pretty easy!
Thanks for the, always valuable, input.
melev
Well-known member
I've never broken one yet that I wasn't trying to break. There may be brittle and old ones out there, but a new one should be tough enough to handle the install properly. In the past, I've used a hammer and screwdriver to tap tap tap it tighter without breakage.
Super hand tight should still be durable enough to survive.
Super hand tight should still be durable enough to survive.
bheron
Active member
Got it. Well I re-tightened the bulkheads. And now have my 75g Sump under the tank so, hopefully, I wont be moving any other large objects and knocking the plumbing....ever again.
New question: sump plumbing.
I have 1" adaptors coming out of my overflows and was planning on using 1" PVC throughout for the sump plmbing. I'm using a Mag 18 as my return pump. B/c I'll have two Tunze Stream 6080's for my in tank flow, I'm not planning on anything more than my Mag18 for my sump pump. With that in mind, I was planning on using 1" PVC for the flow from the display to the sump and the return from the sump to the display. Should be enough, right? Or should I go larger, for flexibility down the road?
New question: sump plumbing.
I have 1" adaptors coming out of my overflows and was planning on using 1" PVC throughout for the sump plmbing. I'm using a Mag 18 as my return pump. B/c I'll have two Tunze Stream 6080's for my in tank flow, I'm not planning on anything more than my Mag18 for my sump pump. With that in mind, I was planning on using 1" PVC for the flow from the display to the sump and the return from the sump to the display. Should be enough, right? Or should I go larger, for flexibility down the road?
melev
Well-known member
My drains and returns are 1.5", but that was due to the size of the drain bulkheads and the return pump outlet. You can read all the gory details on this page if you are so inclined.
http://www.melevsreef.com/280g/280g_sump.html
http://www.melevsreef.com/280g/280g_sump.html
bheron
Active member
Marc, thanks for the link. I'll check it out and come back.
In the meantime, I was thinking about this: if the bulkheads are 1" themselves, then doesn't that restrict the tank to at least that minimum width for flow? In other words, isnt the overall flow of the drains restricted to whatever the minimum diameter is throughout?
In the meantime, I was thinking about this: if the bulkheads are 1" themselves, then doesn't that restrict the tank to at least that minimum width for flow? In other words, isnt the overall flow of the drains restricted to whatever the minimum diameter is throughout?
conda
New member
melev said:
I think he is just trying to pad the hits to his site.
Seriously though, I'm curious to the answer also. My overflow has two 1.5" drains and I'm also using a Mag18 return. The outlet to the mag is 3/4", so doesn't the return have to match the pump outlet?
I'm no plumber, so I have no clue, this is where I slow down.
dougchambers
New member
Conda,conda said:I think he is just trying to pad the hits to his site.
Seriously though, I'm curious to the answer also. My overflow has two 1.5" drains and I'm also using a Mag18 return. The outlet to the mag is 3/4", so doesn't the return have to match the pump outlet?
I'm no plumber, so I have no clue, this is where I slow down.
Your return plumbing does not have to be the same size as the outlet of your pump. In fact, it's generally accepted to upsize the return plumbing after the pump. By using a larger size like 1-1.5" after the MAG, you reduce head losses in the return lines. Realistically, you could use one of your 1.5" drains to feed your sump/refugium and the other as a bulkhead passthru for your return.
Where you can run into problems is running smaller plumbing which increases head loss and reduces flow.
-Doug
tgunn
Active member
bheron said:
I don't know if there's as much value in making the drain plumbing larger than the bulkheads...
In my setup I've got two 1.5" drains teed (soon to be un-teed) to 2" plumbing. The 2" plumbing is so large in diameter that the water makes a very loud sound as it sloshes around in the pipes (the drains can't come even close to saturating the 2" pipe with the flow I'm pushing)... In the end I'm going to have to choke back the output of the plumbing with a gate valve to cause enough backpressure that the pipes fill up and prevent the sloshing sound.
Later,
Tyler
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