220 Inwall - Plan

[bheron]

All - thanks for your help this week. Alan, two great tips. I did used the sharpie idea for my PVC this week. And I'll have to check out that Garage Door idea as well. Marc, yea, I dont want anything that would be too heavy to lift as I see myself using the access panel frequently.

UPDATE:
Sorry not too much to report today. I cant beleive A) how long its taken me to complete my plumbing and B) how many other things have gotten in the way of my Fish Tank project!

I had the plumbing set and 90% dryfitted at the beginning of this week. Its taken me all week to run back and forth to Home Depot and pick up a peice here and there, and then piece by piece make the final cuts of PVC and multiple minor tweaks to the whole design. I've really learned its a case of, no matter how much you plan and design, you really dont know what you want until you go to execute. Oh, and in the midst of it all we've been so busy and also just got a new puppy!

Finally, last night, I made the call to finish the PVC. Knowing that I have tonight free and a 4-day weekend coming up (!yes!) I decided I wanted this thing ready for a long weekend of tinkering.

So, I stayed up until 1am last night gluing everything together. I'll have pics later. I have to say I was AMAZED at how quickly the PVC glue sets! I'm not kidding here, I would say it was set to the point of no movement within 15 seconds. Really. I would glue both sides, connect them, and 15 secs later I couldnt move or adjust it one bit!!! Luckily it didnt mess me up too much.

So, in summary, when I get home it'll be about 16 hours of curing time and I think ready for my first wet-run! I'm fully expecting water on the floor here and a long night of frustration, so I'm glad I planned it on a Friday night with the wife out for the night. If all goes well, I'll have a nice update tomorrow telling you that it went well!

Wish me luck.

 

[tgunn]

Good luck Bryan!

I hear you; I hade made a VERY detailed plumbing diagram but until I actually fit things together there was no way to know what I really needed... In the end I bought a large number of 90s and 45s in 1 1/2" and 2" so I didn't have to keep running back.

Yeah, that PVC cement dries VERY fast. I ran into a few cases where I almost didn't make the joint in time before the cement dried.. Consequently I ended up using an excess of cement on each joint to give me a bit more time to work; I went through 4 medium size cans of PVC cement... in the process.

Good luck and have fun!
Tyler

 

[bheron]

4 cans! Darn! Thanks for the inspriational comments tyler!

 

[tgunn]

4 cans! Darn! Thanks for the inspriational comments tyler!

Yes, I used plenty of cement... As I said before, my other lesson is to plan things to leave enough room you could cut out a fitting with a bad joint; I learned that one too many times before getting the hang of it. :lol:

Make sure to post pics when you're done and and off the high of the PVC cement. :lol:

Tyler

 

[simonmr]

nothing like a good pvc cement high

 

[bheron]

One thing better than a PVC high - putting down a few beers while undertaking this task.

Well, I think I pulled it off! I began filling a few hours ago.

- I started with the over flow chambers and everything was fine except one leak. And it was with the bulkhead. I noticed it before but have been so afraid to overtighten these plastic bulkheads. Well, I realized I had to do something - even though it was a slow drip - so I tightened ever so slightly with a wrench. And it worked!

- Next I filled up the sump with a few inches of water to test the return plumbing. And...no problems there! Not a one.

- So , I next began a cycle of filling the sump with water. Figured, rather than just fill the display with water directly, I could fill the sump with water and periodically test the return plumbing over and over. After 2 hours or so it worked! No problems.

- Finally, when I got to the top where the overflows come in, I was ready to test the whole system.

- Once the overflows started I just let my Mag 18 run at full speed - no dial back. And, it worked perfectly as luck would have it. I had to widen the holes on my Durso's, and one still has a slight "flushing" thing going on, but after some tinkering it's working pretty good.

- Oh, and b/c my sump is 75g and I dont have killer flow running through it, I dont appear to have an issues with microbubbles! I decided to wait before adding any baffles to see how it went with a bare sump. Now, I'm not sure - but when I add salt I think the water may have a propensity for more bubbles? No? Anyway, it would be great to not have to build out the sump anymore.


All in all, I'm set. I'm going to let it run and periodically check it for failure. test it for power shut off and all that stuff. In a few days, I'll let it run on its own, unmonitored. Which reminds me...I'd better get back down there!

I took a bunch of pics, so they'll come soon!

 

[melev]

Nice update.

You'll want those baffles, I'm positive.

 

[bheron]

Marc - is that b/c saltwater will be more "bubbly" than cold fresh water from the hose?

 

[bheron]

PICS!!!

PICS!!!

Ok, as promised, here's some follow up pics from my most recent post above...




-First, here's some shots of how I finished sealing the tank room off from the rest of the basement. You can see two things here:

1) the "Great Stuff" that I used to fill the larger gaps in the rubber baseboard and the underneath of the tank stand.

2) I sealed the rubber baseboard with silicone on top and bottom

- Here's a show at how I secured my plumbing. First is some plastic stuff used for holding pipes. I used this under my tank to secure the overflow plumbing.

Then I used simple zip ties for the return plumbing...

- And now, I begin the filling process with my garden hose:

- First test run of the return pump:

- Halfway there!

- And full!

Its been working well since Firday night, save for some small leaks in the bulkheads which I've tightened ever so slightly. I'm gonna let it go all day tomorrow and then I'll be satisfied.

 

[melev]

Marc - is that b/c saltwater will be more "bubbly" than cold fresh water from the hose?

The water tension of saltwater is different from freshwater, and thus you get tiny bubbles to contend with.

I wouldn't run a sump without baffles, and don't recommend it to others.

Plus you know you needed me to assign you yet another task, right?

I wanna seem more pictures of your plumbing.

What is this about a garden hose and tap water???????? :lol:

 

[Airman]

BH,

Your tank is coming around. Question: What is lowest opening on your overflow? Does is draw water from the middle of the tank? I was a little confused a page back.

 

[tgunn]

Marc - is that b/c saltwater will be more "bubbly" than cold fresh water from the hose?

Marc's right; put in the baffles now; the bubbles that show up are REALLY fine once you get the salt in. My freshwater test didn't have really any bubbles at all.. But I see them in the sump with the saltwater.

Tyler

 

[tgunn]

Congrats on getting the plumbing done Bryan!

:lol: Did you drag the garden hose in from outside or did you just connect it to your sink in the fish room? I bet my neighbors wondered when I uravelled a bunch of hose outside, went to the side window and started feeding it inside.

Not sure how your water is, but after a 5 day fresh water test I had to clean my tank out because a bunch of red algae was growing all over. Gee, and I wonder why we're supposed to use RO/DI eh? Took 4 hours to clean the sump and tank to prepare for the RO/DI after that one. Oh well..

Tyler

 

[bheron]

Marc - "The water tension of saltwater is different from freshwater, and thus you get tiny bubbles to contend with.
I wouldn't run a sump without baffles, and don't recommend it to others."

- Point taken. Thats all I need to hear! (plus tyler echoing the same below).

"Plus you know you needed me to assign you yet another task, right? "

- Of COURSE! why else would I be here at 10:30 am reading this stuff?

"I wanna seem more pictures of your plumbing. "

-You ask and you will get. Just went down and took a bunch more. See below.

"What is this about a garden hose and tap water???????? "

- Yea, yea. I know, the cardinal rule. I'm hoping this is fine just to do a wet run test. Then drain, rinse out and fill with RODI. Right? Here's something interesting, when I first filled my 75g back in June 2002 (BEFORE I DISCOVERED RC) I used my garden hose!! Yep. Then, I topped off each week with Tap. I didnt know about the word "Copper" then either. What a silly young man I was.

Airman - "What is lowest opening on your overflow? Does is draw water from the middle of the tank? I was a little confused a page back."

- Thanks for the comments and chiming in here. I think you mean inside the tank and not talking about diameter of the PVC plumbing? So, ok, my overflow is actually an AGA MF (All Glass Aquarium Mega Flow) design. It came with the tank. I think, by the Mega Flow, they mean exactly what youre asking about - "how does the water flow out of the tank?" - If I can, I'll answer that in detail in the next post below as part of my plumbing narration. In short, it pulls water from three spots: bottom, middle, and top. So the lowest is probably an inch or two from the bottom of the tank.

Tyler - "Marc's right; put in the baffles now; the bubbles that show up are REALLY fine once you get the salt in. My freshwater test didn't have really any bubbles at all.. But I see them in the sump with the saltwater."

-Thanks dude. I get what you guys mean now!

"Congrats on getting the plumbing done Bryan! "

-Thanks! Thanks to everyone. I told my wife that she didnt congratulate me and go the "I dont care about plumbing really....just want it to look nice." comment.

" Did you drag the garden hose in from outside or did you just connect it to your sink in the fish room? "

-Ha! You know, that was going to be part of my plan, and braced myself for it. But, I was able to connect it to my sink easily and it made the job much easier!! Another comment, adding to the above to Marc, when I filled my 75 with hose water in 2002 I had to run it from the garage, down the foyer hall, down the basement steps, and to the tank. Nightmere!


"Not sure how your water is, but after a 5 day fresh water test I had to clean my tank out because a bunch of red algae was growing all over. Gee, and I wonder why we're supposed to use RO/DI eh? Took 4 hours to clean the sump and tank to prepare for the RO/DI after that one. Oh well."

-Wow, good comment. Didnt think it would take only 5 days. I'm planning on draining it real soon then. Thx.



Ok, next I'll show details of the plumbing...

 

[bheron]

Plumbing Setup

Plumbing Setup

The Plan:

Ok, to start off, here's a previous sketch of how I originally planned to design my plumbing:

- Note: not working with any closed loop systems here. I plan to employ two Tunze Streams in the tank for maximum flow. This design is just to circulate water through the sump and rest of the system with my Mag 18.

Results:

I pretty much came out with the above design except both overflows drain directly to the far right corner of the tank. Also, as you'll see in the pictures, I haven fully connected the 15g glass QT tank on the left yet.

First shot is of the whole system with some notes:

Now, the detailed shots.

First, the overflow from the tank, as mentioned above, is the AGA Mega Flow style. I guess they mean "mega" b/c it takes water from three different levels in the tank. I dont have a good picture of it, but I made this based off pics from their website:

The shot on the left is a top view of the overflow chamber. I have two of these in my tank. They say each one can flow up to 600 gph. Mega? Hmmmmm. Anyway, the right pic is how the water enters the first chamber. I say first, b/c there's a very thin "inner chamber" that collects water from all three levels. The water then travels up to the top and overflows into the main overflow area. This inner chamber, I beleive, protects your system from flowing the entire tank of water into your sump. Airman, maybe this is what you were getting to? I know it worried me at first, but someone (I think Melev) pointed out the inner chamber.


Here's a link to the AGA website with more details:
http://www.all-glass.com/products/aquariums/index.html

Chamber
Ok, inside each chamber there are two holes drilled, approximately 1" and 3/4". One is for flow out (1") and one is for a return (3/4"). I decided not to use the one for return and just plug it up for future expansion and an easier return plumbing setup.


The chambers each flow out via 1" plastic bulkheads I got online from Marine Depot. You can see them here, at the bottom of my Durso Standpipes.

Dursos
I created two Durso standpipes to handle the flow through the 1" bulkheads. Never have done this before, I found Rich Durso's website an excellent guide to helping me "DIY" these things! Great invention, great website. Here's a shot of mine in place..

And a link to Rich's website where you can get more info:

Durso Standpipes

Overflow Plumbing
As the water flows through the 1" bulkheads and into the sump, it passes through 1" PVC and a 1" ball valve. Not sure if this was needed but I figured it couldnt hurt and gives me some added protection and flexibility. Here's a shot, from one end, showing the connection out of the bulkhead:

And another, from the opposite end (you can see the PVC pipes flowing into the sump, as well as the ball valves - the pipe closest is actuall part of the return plumbing)

And here's where the two overflow pipes run into the sump. I need to trim them a bit so that they're just under the surface. Also, I may try something I've been thinking about to help quiet the water. I'm also going to employ Melev's latest design to help "battle bubbles".

As shown eariler, here's something I used to keep the pipes in place:

So, thats the flow from the tank into the 75 gallon glass sump.

In the next post, I'll detail the Return Plumbing.

 

[bheron]

Return Plumbing
So, how does the water get back into the tank? Here goes:

First, I'm using a Mag18 pump for my return pump. Nothing too fancy, and b/c its a submerged pump, I know it will create extra heat in the water. Oh well, I'm working with what I have for budget and simplicty reasons.

The Mag18 has a 3/4" outlet, so I connected a 3/4" to 1" PVC connector. Then, I inserted a 1" Ball Valve. This is here for two reasons:

1) To be able to "dial" back the flow of the Mag18, incase it was too much flow for the Mega Flows.

2) Also, somethine I employed in the past, I will connect some flexible tubing to the ball valve to make it easy for Water Changes. My goal is to be able to empty a sufficient amount of water from the tank/sump without turning off the pump.

Here's a shot:

Right after the ball valve I used a 1" PVC Union. I learned this trick from everyone here on RC. This will allow me quickly and easily disconnet the pump from the rest of the plumbing for maintenance and cleaning, or if I decide to change my design later. In reality, these would be nice to have throughout my plumbing.

Next, the return plumbing comes out of the sump and back up to the tank. As mentioned before, I used some simple zip ties to secure it a bit:

Split to QT Tank
Before the water hits the display, I have T-Split with a Ball Valve that will split off the water to my 15 gallon QT tank. I havent finished the setup of this yet, but I put the split in nonetheless.

Here you can see it:

Return to Display
Then, at the top of the tank, I have two simple outlets from the 1" PVC which are connected to this cool flexibile PVC that I currently forget the name of!

This shot is a lilttle crooked, but its the 1" PVC running across the top of the tank with the two branches back into the display:

And, finally, a shot of the whole system, as best as I could get:

Phew, hope that wasnt too confusing. Nothing high tech or too fancy, and thats on purpose.

Hope that helps!

 

[melev]

That's great. Thanks for sharing all the details as I know it will help others.

 

[bheron]

Cool. Hope it will help!

I have the next two days off, so lets see what I can get done. I'm planning on emptying the tank today if all goes well.

Here's my next question:

- My live rock wont be ready for about 3-4 weeks, maybe longer. But, I was thinking that, maybe, I can get my currentl ivestock in the tank earlier. I have no corals just three fish and some inverts. I was thinking, fill up the tank with SW, heat, circulate and start the cycle with a shrimp or two before the LR is in. Then, once the cycle is complete, put the fish in right away? no LR but I could put PVC in there for them to hide in, and also come bacteria filled sponges in the sump.

I'm definitely not trying to rush the finish here, but I really want to get these guys out of their 20G hold as soon as I can. Thoughts? SHould I just wait until all the LR is in and aquascaped?

 

[melev]

The cycle can take as long as 3 weeks, and your LR will be ready about the same time. So I don't really see the point of putting the fish in any sooner.

 

[bheron]

Good point. Very good. That makes it easy then.


Ok, another question, after reading Tyler's update. Should I offically QT my current livestock before putting them into my new tank in a few weeks? I mean, they're perfectly healthy. I think, one time, I might've seen something on my blue tang that looked like a parasite and he looked like he itched a few times. But that was it. Was never sure if he had ich, or if its in the water at this time.

I was thinking of taking out the LR thats in there now, replacing it with PVC, and lowering the salinity gradually over the next few weeks. I have two different filter medias in there that have full bio filtration bacteria on them.

is this a good idea?