220 Inwall - Plan

[melev]

I agree. Risk = more unknowns with T5s. Almost can't go wrong with MHs.

Marc, its obvious the things you like about MH. Can you list your top "dislikes" of MH, just curious?

The T5s have to be closer to the water, which means they are in the way most of the tank when you need to reach in the tank.

If you were to mount them to the canopy lid, that would be fine. However, once you lift the lid to access the tank, you get a face full of light and the tank is now dark. That usually isn't a big deal unless you have to work in there for a duration.

T5's have cool like reflectors, which are pretty neat.

T5's won't burn your hand, which is nice.

T5's use half the wattage of a VHO bulb, but they didn't look as good as VHOs. I had both types set up over my 55g for 3 months, and could turn on any combination I liked. They were okay when no-one was here to view the tank, and I liked the idea of saving money (less wattage), but the tank didn't look as good and that is pretty much my main goal - the tank should look good. Have you seen this page yet?

http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/0504/t5.html

So am I opposed to them? No. Would they be good for your application? I have my doubts. Over a little 29g I think they'd be great.

<b>Your</b> mileage may vary.

 

[mike89t]

I just read a thread last night and this guy is 100% positive his T5s were killing his corals. I know, I know... it sounds extreme but there is something to be gained from that feedback. You never hear about MH killing corals, just because of the light they produce.

Here is a great 200g tank lit by nothing but T5 lighting:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=700454&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

 

[melev]

Okay, if you are heading down the path of light that I've shone upon you.... :lol:

HelloLights.com has some good deals too.

Does the local club have a message board up? Do they have a For Sale Forum? You can start shopping there for your needs, and getting stuff slightly used will save you big bucks. New is great and warranties can be too, but if you save enough money it may offset that desire. Sometimes people sell stuff that is hardly used because it was the wrong thing for their tank or they have to move suddenly.

I noticed in that first link, the 250w retro was only $4 cheaper than the 400w retro. So if you considering the 10000K, 20000K, 10000K setup like I have, you can see the ballast won't cost you much at all.

Electronic ballasts are a little more expensive, but are supposed to save you money in usage in the long run.

If you use VHOs and a ballast, you should be looking at about $200 or so. You'll need a ballast (IceCap 660), 4 endcaps, and two actinic bulbs ($45 each). They will be your dawn and dusk lighting when the MH aren't on.

In an effort to save you money, continue posting the deals you find and we'll let you know if is seems fair.

 

[melev]

Okay, I just read that thread, Mike89t. Bryan, if you can copy what he is doing, T5's may work out perfectly. :lol:

So now what to do? Fortunately, you've not spent a penny yet.

 

[bheron]

Marc -

Have you seen this page yet?

- Good read Marc. Helpful. Thx


mike89t, thanks for that link! That guys tank is amazing!



Marc -

HelloLights.com has some good deals too.

- I've been there but it all looks like the same to me. Any recs from their site that I can add to my list?


Marc -

Does the local club have a message board up? Do they have a For Sale Forum? You can start shopping there for your needs, and getting stuff slightly used will save you big bucks. New is great and warranties can be too, but if you save enough money it may offset that desire. Sometimes people sell stuff that is hardly used because it was the wrong thing for their tank or they have to move suddenly.

- Good idea! I checked both places and found the following:

2x250w DE MH/2x95w VHO hood (hamilton protostar)

I think I read that DE are supposed to be more powerful but more difficult to work with? Have no idea about "hamilton protostar". No price listed.

Marc -

I noticed in that first link, the 250w retro was only $4 cheaper than the 400w retro. So if you considering the 10000K, 20000K, 10000K setup like I have, you can see the ballast won't cost you much at all.

- I've heard that 400W will use SOOO much more power and kill the elec bill. If so, I want to stay away. Our elec Co around here just announced a 17-30% boost in costs coming up!

Marc -

Electronic ballasts are a little more expensive, but are supposed to save you money in usage in the long run.

- Yes, heard that too. But also, arent they supposed to be more "tempermental"? This is one of the reasons whyT5 just seems so much more simpler! Less options, less choices = easier to me!

Marc -

If you use VHOs and a ballast, you should be looking at about $200 or so. You'll need a ballast (IceCap 660), 4 endcaps, and two actinic bulbs ($45 each). They will be your dawn and dusk lighting when the MH aren't on.

- Ok, see, here's where I'm gonna have to admit I have no clue what you mean . This is where I get intimidated my the whole thing and, again, picture myself having to mess with ballasts, endcaps, johnson rods, etc each week to get these things working! maybe just fear caused my ignorance?

Marc -

In an effort to save you money, continue posting the deals you find and we'll let you know if is seems fair.

- You know, this would be the best thing for me! I would so appreciate it. I think I'll scour some places recommended and also some places I know, take a visit to Champion Lighting tomorrow, and then post a short list for everyone's review. That would help so much.

Marc -

Okay, I just read that thread, Mike89t. Bryan, if you can copy what he is doing, T5's may work out perfectly. So now what to do? Fortunately, you've not spent a penny yet.

- Ah! Not sure if youre joking here dude b/c his site was all in German and we're not sure what he did - looks like 10 T5s. But...if you're serious, I absolutely love the look of that tank.

..And, you know me well I guess. My credo is to beat this thing to death BEFORE I spend a penny. My fear - drop a grand and the next day kick myself in the a** b/c I regret my choice!

ahhh. time to research more.

 

[ToeJam]

Can you guys check out the below links? I'm going to visit this place that distributes the below. Have no idea if these are valid setups if I were to go MH. Two thoughts to keep in mind:

1) Since my setup is in wall, Retro is a viable option?

2) I already have a 110W PC light, and a 70W HO light. Would I need the supplemental PC or VHO lights listed below?

Here's their three main options:

MH Retros:
http://www.championlighting.com/home.php?cat=560

MH/PC Retros:
http://www.championlighting.com/home.php?cat=557

MH/VHO Retros:
http://www.championlighting.com/home.php?cat=546

THoughts?

I would also check out HelloLights.com. I am going to be ordering 2 of these later this month. I have heard from some locals that use these that this ballast is pretty good, and I have not been able to find a better price.

250W MH Retro

Your tank is looking very nice so far. I am planning on doing this when I get into a bigger house next year. I have been following along with your progress and will likely borrow a little from your design.

Jamie

 

[melev]

DE are double-ended bulbs that have no UV shielding. So you have to have some glass between the bulb and your tank (and eyeballs) to protect against damage. They surely run hotter. I actually have a tiny 70w DE setup that is going to go over Casper's future tank. Once I've has some hands-on experience I can delve more into that topic.

According to Sanjay Joshi, 250w DE and 250w SE are about the same PAR wise, even though people tend to state DE are stronger.

I have no doubt the T5s are more simple in the long run, and as long as you can keep your livestock alive and happy under them, it is a viable option.

I need to read Iwan's website when I have some time. I think the additives are part of his solution, and if we are going to be really frank, I have a feeling this is no common hobbyist tank. It almost <i>feels</i> like an advertisement for something although I've not figured out what. Yet.

 

[bheron]

Jamie - thanks for the link. Those are some cheap lights! HELLO!
I'd be more than happy to share any other of my project experiences when you begin yours.

Marc - thanks for the quick exp. on the DE/SE. I rmemeber that about the DE's needing a shield and running hotter. I hear you on the Iwan's site - its too perfect. Hope its something I can learn from. Never heard of the additives. You spent time in Switzerland? Where? I worked in Geneva for 3-4 months.

 

[melev]

I lived in Basel for 3 years, and went to school there. My mother calls me a Heimweh Schweitzer all the time. (Homesick Swiss)

 

[bheron]

:rollface:
I dont remeber where that was. Great place, Switzerland is!


Well, I spent about 2 hours last night reviewing that Reef Tank Videos thread. What a great thread! I remember when it started but it was tough searching through the thing for good videos. NOW--they've organized them all into the first post of the thread. Great time. Some amazing tanks.

What I did decide, however, is that I think I still prefer the look of Flourescent over the MH. I was really glad to have a chance to see, several times, the look of the MH gives to a tank. Its amazing how cool the shimmer lines are, and how much it looks just like real sunlight and youre down there diving yourself! Amazingly true. However, I also learned that, better than that look, I love the even, artifical, bright look of flourescent.

Great test.

 

[melev]

Basel is in the upper left corner of Switzerland, and Drei Lander Ecke is the location on the Rhein river where depending which way you face, you'll either see Germany, France, or Switzerland.

Okay, due to the shape of the country, I can't say it in the corner after all. But you can see it here:

 

[bheron]

Ah. Yea, thats up there. My fav place is Interlaken and that great cable car system to the top of the one mtn.

 

[melev]

Yes, that place is gorgeous. I think the mountain you are referring to is Pilatus. I like visiting one of the glaciers up on the Jungfrau. There is an ice palace with a bunch of sculptures on display within the frozen mountain. And we got to have a little fun up there. http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/swiss/jungfrau.html

 

[bheron]

No, it was actually a mountain on the Jungfrau region. The one with the rotating restuarant at the top built for the James Bond movie. The name slips me. Great pics though - they dont do it justice.

 

[bheron]

Update:

Well, its always nice to get some breaks along the way. Knowing that my tnak is almost done, I have to get my sump finished. I'm keeping it simple and right now just have plans to install 3 glass baffles in my 75g glass sump. I used this place before that does mostly residentla glass work - they were great. So, just for the heck of it, I walked into their workroom this afternoon over lunch with my measurements and, as luck would have it, they were helpful and cut my pieces while I waited!

Really lucky to have such a good glass vendor close by (Yocum Glass in Collegeville, PA for you locals). It cost $40.70 plus $5.00 for GEII Silcone from Home Depot and for that amount plus some work tonight, I'll have an instant sump!

Right now, thats all I'm planning for it. It seems like its taking forever to fill the last 50 gallons or so in this thing. Thought it would be done today but its not! I even have 25' of input line sitting in 70+ degrees of water. Hopefully, by tomorrow morning, the entire tank will be completely filled.

Until then....

 

[melev]

I know exactly which one you are referring to. I can't remember either at the moment, but it is like Heideck or something with a two syllable name. I've always wanted to visit that restaurant.

 

[melev]

Shilthorn - http://www.myswissalps.com/berneseoberland/berneseoberland-vacation.asp?lang=EN

And then there is the cool rotating cable car that goes up Titlis. http://www.ncstravels.com/outbound-tours/mount-titlis.html

I'm missing home again.

 

[bheron]

Thats it! Schilthorn!!!! What an amazing place.

I remember this web site b/c it had a live camera feed from it. Its dark now.

http://www.swisspanorama.com/html/schilthorncam1.html

I'm in the mood for some Fondue!

On a more serious note - the darn RODI is STILL working on filling up the monster tank! The wife is about to kill me b/c of the sump pump running all night with all the waste water. And I'm pressing my luck leaving my RODI on 24/7. Maybe a web cam for that fed directly to my bedroom so I can watch it tonight.

 

[Nammy]

I did some camping up their. Nice place...

 

[melev]

Did someone say Fondue? http://www.raclette-fondue.com/