EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Boy I bet that wrestler was as made as hell.bheron said:
:rollface: :rollface: :rollface:
220 Inwall - Plan
- Thread starter bheron
- Start date
- Status
:rollface: :rollface: :rollface:
bheron
Active member
Tyler - thats great to hear. I have three fish leftover from my previous setup. All are VERY hardy and healthy since they've made it this far. That's who I would move gradually.
(on a seperate topic, did you see my note to you in your thread about the video? awesome!!!)
Conda-
1) I'll PM you with the details in a minute
2) so do you think a mini-cycle, at the least, will occur?
3) I sure do have a shot. Let me know if this one helps since its labeled:
EDIT: alan, just caught that one! Good one. :eek1: Yes, he was very large, angry, and hungry. But GREAT at removing phosphates.
(on a seperate topic, did you see my note to you in your thread about the video? awesome!!!)
Conda-
1) I'll PM you with the details in a minute
2) so do you think a mini-cycle, at the least, will occur?
3) I sure do have a shot. Let me know if this one helps since its labeled:
EDIT: alan, just caught that one! Good one. :eek1: Yes, he was very large, angry, and hungry. But GREAT at removing phosphates.
conda
New member
Got it, thanks.bheron said:
I would think so, but I am no expert.bheron said:
From my experience, LR has some bacteria on it, but unless it has a steady source of ammonia, it will not have enough. Also, the bacteria will move from the rock to everything else once that steady source of ammonia is present.
What happened to me was, I put LR in, tested everything for over a week--no cycle. Put more rock in, tested, no cycle. Started adding fish, two clowns, no cycle. Figured I'm ok, added some inverts and a bigger fish--then cycle, hair algae, etc. Once the bacteria cought up, everything was perfect, but it was a pain. Lost two cleaners and a pep shrimp due to it.
Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for the pic, I wish my plumbing was that nice and easy. I might have bit off more than I can chew on my setup.bheron said:
gkarshens
New member
From my understanding the cyle comes from having things causing ammonia without the biological filtration (ie live rock or sand) ready. If your live rock is cured you should be ok if you add fish slowly. One other thing to note, if your live rock has a lot of sponge growing on it don't expose it to air or they will die and cause an ammonia spike.
conda
New member
Yes, but even with LR, you can exceed the bio-load with a steady input of ammonia. That is what happened to me. But mine was a 55, so it was a lot easier to hit that max since I could not fit alot of LR in there. And I only had three fish in there when it finally started to cycle.gkarshens said:
melev
Well-known member
If you have enough LR, and it sounds like you don't, and it is fully cured and stays submerged, then it is possible to set up a tank with no obvious cycle. With a 220g tank, you'd need at least 220lbs of LR, if not more like 300lbs (1.5lbs/gal).
As long as you add things very gradually, you'll never see a spike because as the new addition expels waste, the bacterial population in the tank will increase to handle that load. Three fish will be fine. A few soft corals won't add any problems. But as you add more fish and corals that require feeding, that is when things can get dicey.
Remember to seed your sandbed with some LS from some estabilshed tanks. All you need is a couple of pounds from a few reefers, either from their display or their refugium. However, do check to see what their tank looks like to avoid introducing flatworms or cyano, as you don't want those put into your system.
As long as you add things very gradually, you'll never see a spike because as the new addition expels waste, the bacterial population in the tank will increase to handle that load. Three fish will be fine. A few soft corals won't add any problems. But as you add more fish and corals that require feeding, that is when things can get dicey.
Remember to seed your sandbed with some LS from some estabilshed tanks. All you need is a couple of pounds from a few reefers, either from their display or their refugium. However, do check to see what their tank looks like to avoid introducing flatworms or cyano, as you don't want those put into your system.
bheron
Active member
Thanks for the input about the cycle. I think I'm gonna do both - add the live rock (if its clean from the cooking) and add a shrimp to start an ammonia spike.
gkarshens -
- Intersting. I know when the rock was in my 75 it did have some sponge growth. BUt not since I moved it. All gone.
Marc -
- Youre right, I only have 100lbs at the present time. Planning on buying another 100 or so of base rock. But, with only three fish it should be ok to handle the bioload, right?
Marc -
- Oh, so maybe I dont need a shrimp to kick start it? Just put the rock in for a few days and check the levels before adding the 3 fish gradually?
Marc -
- Yea, I knew this ahead of time, so I was keeping a portion of my old sand bed ahwile for some time. But then it seemed like a waste of time so I let it die. I am very wary of taking in something from another person's tank. I really dont want to risk, as you say, getting unwanted pests or diseases. Shouldnt my already seeded live rock be enough?
Or do I need the benefical sand bed critters too.
Keith -
- No, youre right. But the QT tank you see plumbed into the rest of the system is more of a "holding" tank, rather than a true, QT. I have a seperate 20g QT tank to the side. The holding tank is a idea of mine that I'll have to see if it pans out.
Update: got home tonight to find the sand storm still brewing! I thought it was just from initially adding all the salt but I guess it kicked up the sand. The temp is up to 78 and the salinity all looks fine! I see alot of peopple running their skimmers duing the sand storm - is that a good idea?
gkarshens -
- Intersting. I know when the rock was in my 75 it did have some sponge growth. BUt not since I moved it. All gone.
Marc -
- Youre right, I only have 100lbs at the present time. Planning on buying another 100 or so of base rock. But, with only three fish it should be ok to handle the bioload, right?
Marc -
- Oh, so maybe I dont need a shrimp to kick start it? Just put the rock in for a few days and check the levels before adding the 3 fish gradually?
Marc -
- Yea, I knew this ahead of time, so I was keeping a portion of my old sand bed ahwile for some time. But then it seemed like a waste of time so I let it die. I am very wary of taking in something from another person's tank. I really dont want to risk, as you say, getting unwanted pests or diseases. Shouldnt my already seeded live rock be enough?
Or do I need the benefical sand bed critters too.
Keith -
- No, youre right. But the QT tank you see plumbed into the rest of the system is more of a "holding" tank, rather than a true, QT. I have a seperate 20g QT tank to the side. The holding tank is a idea of mine that I'll have to see if it pans out.
Update: got home tonight to find the sand storm still brewing! I thought it was just from initially adding all the salt but I guess it kicked up the sand. The temp is up to 78 and the salinity all looks fine! I see alot of peopple running their skimmers duing the sand storm - is that a good idea?
melev
Well-known member
I'm not a fan of baserock. I know it saves a bunch of money, but it won't really start acting as natural filtration until it is well established. That can take up to 6 months. My tank doesn't have any baserock at all. I used what I had, and acquired more LR from club members in the area. LR is up for sale all the time, and buying it from others runs $2 to $4 per pound.
I don't think you need the shrimp.
LS from the LFS might be an option perhaps. There is a bag of live sand that costs about $30, and is sealed. How much life is in a sealed bag, I do not know, but it would be safe. I just got a bag for my reef. Because the bag got punctured somehow going to the LFS today, I'm getting it tomorrow for $20.
Or you can get a couple of scoops from one of their displays or refugiums. Just look in the tank first for any obvious undesirables.
Due to the volume of water in your system, I'm thinking you can add your fish and they will do the same job as the shrimp would have. Just don't add anything else for about a month.
Your holding system isn't really ideal, now that I'm thinking about it. If your new fish are put in holding and break out with a disease, by then whatever you've seen is likely washed through the system. I like the idea, but don't see how it keeps your reef immune. It would be a great place to put new corals, on an eggcrate stand. Lure out the hitchhikers with food on the base of the tank in a corner.
I don't think you need the shrimp.
LS from the LFS might be an option perhaps. There is a bag of live sand that costs about $30, and is sealed. How much life is in a sealed bag, I do not know, but it would be safe. I just got a bag for my reef. Because the bag got punctured somehow going to the LFS today, I'm getting it tomorrow for $20.
Or you can get a couple of scoops from one of their displays or refugiums. Just look in the tank first for any obvious undesirables.Due to the volume of water in your system, I'm thinking you can add your fish and they will do the same job as the shrimp would have. Just don't add anything else for about a month.
Your holding system isn't really ideal, now that I'm thinking about it. If your new fish are put in holding and break out with a disease, by then whatever you've seen is likely washed through the system. I like the idea, but don't see how it keeps your reef immune. It would be a great place to put new corals, on an eggcrate stand. Lure out the hitchhikers with food on the base of the tank in a corner.
conda
New member
I agree with Marc on the base rock and I think that was one of my problems. I used half LR and half BR and it took the base over 6 months to start turning live. A year later, only one side of it looks like LR, the other side still looks like base.
In fact, I was just rearranging the rock last night and was still not happy with the base I put in. I think I'm going to turn it so the other sides start looking live. The LR I put in a year ago still looks awesome though.
My new tank = all LR. I've already started warning my wife about it. lol.
If you look in the PARC forum, someone in West Chester is selling 70lbs of it cheap right now.
In fact, I was just rearranging the rock last night and was still not happy with the base I put in. I think I'm going to turn it so the other sides start looking live. The LR I put in a year ago still looks awesome though.
My new tank = all LR. I've already started warning my wife about it. lol.
If you look in the PARC forum, someone in West Chester is selling 70lbs of it cheap right now.
Im Lon 2
Premium Member
What I did when I was Change over my 75 to the 240. After I had the levels (Salt, Temp) correct, I hooked up a really small pump (Maxi Jet 900) and pumped water to the 240, and let the 240 flow back to the 75. I did this for a couple of days so the Water chemistry would very slowly acclimate to the whole system. This way when I moved my fish, corals, inverts, they were already acclimated to the water levels. Like a huge water change. Worked great for me.
However I did go with base rock (75%), I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t see any ill effects from it, but like conda said the back of the rock does look more like base rock than the front, and my tank too is 6 month old.
However I did go with base rock (75%), I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t see any ill effects from it, but like conda said the back of the rock does look more like base rock than the front, and my tank too is 6 month old.
melev
Well-known member
rdmpe said:
Just realize it isn't live and won't be for a good while. Thus, when people ask you how much LR you have, be honest. If you have 100g tank with 25 lbs of LR and 80 lbs of base rock, you have to <b>know</b> that only 25 lbs is actively filtering the tank, and the rest of the rock is quietly seeding and slowly growing to the point it can be beneficial too.
We have a guy in our club that loves fish, and buys more and more all the time. He couldn't understand why his nitrates were so high, considering all the rock he had in his tank. Turns out he was buying base rock from a quarry (limestone - not porous btw), and had about 10% liverock. Everyone was telling him to sell off the fish because the load was too high. However, once we found out he had so little LR, he started making changes and turned his tank around. He did sell off quite a few fish since it would take time to get the water where it needed to be.
My point is simple: Use baserock - stock lightly and be patient. Use all LR and you don't have to wait so long. Buying used LR is cheaper, and can help add new bacteria to the tank.
melev
Well-known member
Buying it from a local or from a LFS is no different. What causes it to cycle is being exposed to air, especially if there are sponges dying off due to air-exposure.
Wherever you buy it, bring a bucket or two, and keep it submerged in saltwater. You can even bring the bucket with 2.5g of saltwater in it, so they just pull the rock and put it right back into the water, incase they don't have enough to give you.
Buying LR from individuals does have its drawbacks, so keep in mind that you want to look for: flatworms, hitchhikers, nuisance algae, etc. The stuff at the LFS may have hitchhikers or flatworms too, but usually their stuff looks a little more barren. I try to buy it covered with coralline if at all possible.
I saw the advice another guy gave you about using only 25% LR and 75% baserock, and I'll just say I disagree. Of course, if you'll re-read his thread, you can figure out when he set up the tank, and you'll notice he has a very small bioload (just look at the pictures). He's waiting for it to get well established.
Wherever you buy it, bring a bucket or two, and keep it submerged in saltwater. You can even bring the bucket with 2.5g of saltwater in it, so they just pull the rock and put it right back into the water, incase they don't have enough to give you.
Buying LR from individuals does have its drawbacks, so keep in mind that you want to look for: flatworms, hitchhikers, nuisance algae, etc. The stuff at the LFS may have hitchhikers or flatworms too, but usually their stuff looks a little more barren. I try to buy it covered with coralline if at all possible.
I saw the advice another guy gave you about using only 25% LR and 75% baserock, and I'll just say I disagree. Of course, if you'll re-read his thread, you can figure out when he set up the tank, and you'll notice he has a very small bioload (just look at the pictures). He's waiting for it to get well established.
- Status
Similar threads
