220 Inwall - Plan

[conda]

Wow, glad that worked for you. I have to try that on my second drain. But my problem is the actual bubble tower in the sump creating the microbubbles. I'm going to try a sock tonight to see if that helps.

Also, I dialed back the flow by half and still get the bubbles.

EDIT: I just thought of something. One of the Mag18s I got came with a black, plastic filter sponge. Would that help stop microbubbles? I took it off.

 

[bheron]

Tyler-

How many microbubbles do you get from your skimmer?

- I think I get quite alot actually. I took the sponge off the end of my skimmer output so it really spews bubbles. Yea, I really think I'll try to connect it to one of the bubble towers.

Q: I wonder how that would affect skimmer performance - if I connect an extension onto the end of the skimmer outlet and up/over to the bubble tower?


Conda -

Wow, glad that worked for you. I have to try that on my second drain. But my problem is the actual bubble tower in the sump creating the microbubbles. I'm going to try a sock tonight to see if that helps.

- Thanks. Yea, I find that the sock seems to cut down on the bubbles. I'll also try a stocking as tyler mentioned -- great idea.

Also, I dialed back the flow by half and still get the bubbles.

- Its nice to finally find someone who's using the same return pump as I am. I catch flack for it all the time.

One of the Mag18s I got came with a black, plastic filter sponge. Would that help stop microbubbles? I took it off.

- Yea, I have that too. I use it but dont think it does a thing to stop the bubbles. I just keep it on to help keep critters and misc stuff out of the pump. Not sure how much it actually does!

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6738740#post6738740 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bheron
Tyler-

- I think I get quite alot actually. I took the sponge off the end of my skimmer output so it really spews bubbles. Yea, I really think I'll try to connect it to one of the bubble towers.

Q: I wonder how that would affect skimmer performance - if I connect an extension onto the end of the skimmer outlet and up/over to the bubble tower?

I wasn't thinking to go up and over the bubble tower, but to use a Tee to make an "entrance" into the side of the bubble tower and connect it in that way. So you'd have the 1" or whatever size out from the skimmer go into a Tee (with appropriate reducers) in the bubble tower positioned at whatever level the skimmer output comes out.

It should theoretically only cause a little bit of back pressure if any from the extra piping.

Tyler

 

[bheron]

ah. i see. yea, so any back pressure caused would effect the performance of the skimmer. ok. no big deal since they're literally butted up against each other. Ok, I have a tee at home, I think.

Cool!

 

[conda]

Since we both have new setups, what about the slime coating that Marc mentioned a while back? After the slime gets established, that may help the microbubble problem by providing a less restrictive flow. Or is that just wishfull thinking?

Ragarding the Mag18s. I have two, one on the skimmer and one for the return. When the return is shut off and I turn it back on, I get a slight chatter. Is that normal? Do you ever hear that? I have not noticed it with the one on the skimmer, but that Mag is turned sideways and rarely shuts off.

 

[bheron]

Conda-

Since we both have new setups, what about the slime coating that Marc mentioned a while back? After the slime gets established, that may help the microbubble problem by providing a less restrictive flow. Or is that just wishfull thinking?

- Yes, Ive heard about that but my system's been up for about 2.5 months and I havent noticed a real difference. Not sure how long the coat takes? But it could help. Just havent seen it yet.

Ragarding the Mag18s. I have two, one on the skimmer and one for the return. When the return is shut off and I turn it back on, I get a slight chatter. Is that normal? Do you ever hear that? I have not noticed it with the one on the skimmer, but that Mag is turned sideways and rarely shuts off.

- Yes! I definitely have that. I remember in my old tank I would restart it a few times until the "chatter" went away. It sounds like bubbles are trapped in there, but I dont think thats possible. But, yes, I definitely know what you mean.

 

[melev]

The slime coat occurs within 14 days.

LR rubble can be purchased from your LFS from the bottom of their LR bin. Or ask your local hobbyists for some. Or use those tiny pieces you save to mount frags on. Or kill one live rock with a hammer if you must.

Filter socks, sponges, panty hose and more are one more job. I'm not opposed to them, but I don't want to clean them. Over all, I have to say my system looks great and there aren't any sponges or anything to trap particulates. After all, you do (or will) have corals that eat particulate matter, and if you remove them all, the coral doesn't get its necessary nutrition - perhaps.

I've been running sumps now for maybe 3.5 years, on 29g, a 55g, and the 280g. Typically people comment on how clear the water looks. I tend to agree - it looks great and I'm not slaving over something that needs to be cleaned & replaced every couple of days.

Keep in mind, if you have a fish jump into the overflow, it will end up in the panty hose or clog the pipe. I'd rather have it flush through and find it swimming safely in the sump rather than discover its corpse in a fouled up bag/sock/panty hose.

Every three or four weeks, I spend 10 minutes siphoning up detritus in the sump during a water change or just because I have the time, and I clean my skimmer daily. I clean the glass every three or four days. The rest is feeding, checking on equipment, posting here, working, eating, sleeping.....

You can create a bubble tower or bubble box for your skimmer, or put a Tee on the end that points up and down, with a short riser tube (3 or 6" tall) on both ends. This will let the water flow out, cause the airbubbles to rise and pop, and keep salt spray to a minimum. Or have the skimmer pour into a bubble tower if you have the room and the skimmer is high enough out of the water to do this. I usually just turn the skimmer away from the bubble trap, and this has always worked well.

The bottom line? Zero bubbles in the return section.

 

[conda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6739456#post6739456 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Or kill one live rock with a hammer if you must.

I just did this last night to create some rubble for the bubble tower--thinking this would help the micro bubbles. My mother-in-law was like "What the heck are you doing back there?!?!" So, if you choose this option, be prepared to be looked at like you are crazy!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6739456#post6739456 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Keep in mind, if you have a fish jump into the overflow, it will end up in the panty hose or clog the pipe. I'd rather have it flush through and find it swimming safely in the sump rather than discover its corpse in a fouled up bag/sock/panty hose.

That's assuming you are not using a bubble tower filled with rubble. I wonder how fast the fish would decompose in a bubble tower.

 

[melev]

It would very likely jump out or navigate through. My Lemon Meringue Wrasse did just that in my 29g years ago. I saw it swimming through the refugium section, and that meant it had to go through the weir's inverted U section, then over a baffle, down through a 45 degree elbow with rigid airline tubing blocking the path slightly, down through a bulkhead, through 1" tubing down to the Model A sump, into the LR rubble filled bubble tower, and out through the 3/8" teeth into the refugium.

I couldn't believe my eyes. Then I had to net it out of there to put it back in the reef. Somehow I got lucky. I got in the net almost instantly, and I lifted it back up to the tank, and it swam out like nothing was new. Crazy.

 

[conda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6740065#post6740065 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
It would very likely jump out or navigate through. My Lemon Meringue Wrasse did just that in my 29g years ago. I saw it swimming through the refugium section, and that meant it had to go through the weir's inverted U section, then over a baffle, down through a 45 degree elbow with rigid airline tubing blocking the path slightly, down through a bulkhead, through 1" tubing down to the Model A sump, into the LR rubble filled bubble tower, and out through the 3/8" teeth into the refugium.

I couldn't believe my eyes. Then I had to net it out of there to put it back in the reef. Somehow I got lucky. I got in the net almost instantly, and I lifted it back up to the tank, and it swam out like nothing was new. Crazy.

:eek1: WOW :eek1:

I almost do not beleive that story.

 

[Airman]

I'm glad your bubbles problem is cured. I had the same problem when my sump was new but I fixed mine by cutting the overflow pipe level with the water and use a 45 degree elbow to direct the water toward the top. I have about 3 inches of LR rubble like Marc's suggestion on the bottom. My water loses most of the bubble on the water on top. I believe the LR rubble slow down the flow before it hits the baffles. I agree with Marc about the sock.

 

[conda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6744582#post6744582 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Airman
I'm glad your bubbles problem is cured. I had the same problem when my sump was new but I fixed mine by cutting the overflow pipe level with the water and use a 45 degree elbow to direct the water toward the top. I have about 3 inches of LR rubble like Marc's suggestion on the bottom. My water loses most of the bubble on the water on top. I believe the LR rubble slow down the flow before it hits the baffles. I agree with Marc about the sock.

So you don't use a bubble tower? That is where all my micros are coming from. I think I will try the 45 on the end like you said.

 

[bheron]

Hi all, day 2 since my modification. I have definitely noticed a decrease in the microbubbles in ym display. Im thinking it will take a few days for the bubbles to dissipate? There's hardly ANY in my sump right now, so thats a good sign. Im also planning on doing another WC soon so that shouuld clear up the water. Im on a mission for a crystal clear display!



Melev -

LR rubble can be purchased from your LFS from the bottom of their LR bin. Or ask your local hobbyists for some. Or use those tiny pieces you save to mount frags on. Or kill one live rock with a hammer if you must.

- Yep, thats what i did. Have a bunch of it in my fuge and just cracked up a few pieces.

Filter socks, sponges, panty hose and more are one more job. I'm not opposed to them, but I don't want to clean them. Over all, I have to say my system looks great and there aren't any sponges or anything to trap particulates. After all, you do (or will) have corals that eat particulate matter, and if you remove them all, the coral doesn't get its necessary nutrition - perhaps.

- You know, this sounds really good. I just cant tear myself away from the bags. I think once I achieve my goal of water quality I will remove them since I am all about simplicty, and thats what this acheives here. Thanks.

Keep in mind, if you have a fish jump into the overflow, it will end up in the panty hose or clog the pipe. I'd rather have it flush through and find it swimming safely in the sump rather than discover its corpse in a fouled up bag/sock/panty hose.

- Hmmm, good one. Very true.

Every three or four weeks, I spend 10 minutes siphoning up detritus in the sump during a water change or just because I have the time, and I clean my skimmer daily. I clean the glass every three or four days. The rest is feeding, checking on equipment, posting here, working, eating, sleeping.....

- I have to clean my glass every other day else it really starts to show. Im thinking this is my high nutrients and lack of hig grade a nutrient removal system (ie - need a bigger skimmer, more WC, and macro growth).

You can create a bubble tower or bubble box for your skimmer, or put a Tee on the end that points up and down, with a short riser tube (3 or 6" tall) on both ends. This will let the water flow out, cause the airbubbles to rise and pop, and keep salt spray to a minimum. Or have the skimmer pour into a bubble tower if you have the room and the skimmer is high enough out of the water to do this. I usually just turn the skimmer away from the bubble trap, and this has always worked well.

- Yep, In gonna try that. Im gonna connect the skimmer with an extension so that it empties right into one of the traps.

The bottom line? Zero bubbles in the return section.

-

 

[bheron]

Hi all, day 2 since my modification. I have definitely noticed a decrease in the microbubbles in ym display. Im thinking it will take a few days for the bubbles to dissipate? There's hardly ANY in my sump right now, so thats a good sign. Im also planning on doing another WC soon so that shouuld clear up the water. Im on a mission for a crystal clear display!



Melev -

LR rubble can be purchased from your LFS from the bottom of their LR bin. Or ask your local hobbyists for some. Or use those tiny pieces you save to mount frags on. Or kill one live rock with a hammer if you must.

- Yep, thats what i did. Have a bunch of it in my fuge and just cracked up a few pieces.

Filter socks, sponges, panty hose and more are one more job. I'm not opposed to them, but I don't want to clean them. Over all, I have to say my system looks great and there aren't any sponges or anything to trap particulates. After all, you do (or will) have corals that eat particulate matter, and if you remove them all, the coral doesn't get its necessary nutrition - perhaps.

- You know, this sounds really good. I just cant tear myself away from the bags. I think once I achieve my goal of water quality I will remove them since I am all about simplicty, and thats what this acheives here. Thanks.

Keep in mind, if you have a fish jump into the overflow, it will end up in the panty hose or clog the pipe. I'd rather have it flush through and find it swimming safely in the sump rather than discover its corpse in a fouled up bag/sock/panty hose.

- Hmmm, good one. Very true.

Every three or four weeks, I spend 10 minutes siphoning up detritus in the sump during a water change or just because I have the time, and I clean my skimmer daily. I clean the glass every three or four days. The rest is feeding, checking on equipment, posting here, working, eating, sleeping.....

- I have to clean my glass every other day else it really starts to show. Im thinking this is my high nutrients and lack of hig grade a nutrient removal system (ie - need a bigger skimmer, more WC, and macro growth).

You can create a bubble tower or bubble box for your skimmer, or put a Tee on the end that points up and down, with a short riser tube (3 or 6" tall) on both ends. This will let the water flow out, cause the airbubbles to rise and pop, and keep salt spray to a minimum. Or have the skimmer pour into a bubble tower if you have the room and the skimmer is high enough out of the water to do this. I usually just turn the skimmer away from the bubble trap, and this has always worked well.

- Yep, In gonna try that. Im gonna connect the skimmer with an extension so that it empties right into one of the traps.

The bottom line? Zero bubbles in the return section.

- SOME DAY I HOPE TO BE ABLE TO SAY THE SAME



Airman

I'm glad your bubbles problem is cured. I had the same problem when my sump was new but I fixed mine by cutting the overflow pipe level with the water and use a 45 degree elbow to direct the water toward the top. I have about 3 inches of LR rubble like Marc's suggestion on the bottom. My water loses most of the bubble on the water on top. I believe the LR rubble slow down the flow before it hits the baffles. I agree with Marc about the sock.

- Thanks. Thats in interesting fix.

Conda - if its happened, its happened to marc and now we can all benefit from the experience. Ive seen my fish maneuver through some tight baffles, but nothing like that!


Well, Im hoping that tomorrow night after work the difference will be more noticable. Ive kept my skimmer off for a few days now just to see the difference w/o it.

 

[Airman]

Conda,

I don't use a bubble tower unless you want to call the 3" of LR rubble on the bottom an enlarged tower. I use a 45 degree elbow but I read on RC about someone who uses a T-fitting that is bigger then the overflow pipe. The larger T-fitting supposely slows the water enough to let the air go to the top and water down. I don't know if it will work. I happy with my current sit up. Sound is my thing. I like a quite tank.

 

[conda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6753003#post6753003 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Airman
Conda,

I don't use a bubble tower unless you want to call the 3" of LR rubble on the bottom an enlarged tower. I use a 45 degree elbow but I read on RC about someone who uses a T-fitting that is bigger then the overflow pipe. The larger T-fitting supposely slows the water enough to let the air go to the top and water down. I don't know if it will work. I happy with my current sit up. Sound is my thing. I like a quite tank.

Do you have any pics of your setup? If so, I don't want to hijack this thread--post it in my thread.

Thanks.

 

[TheCoralReef731]

Well, now that my idea worked on your system, I think I should try it as well . Do you have any problems with the outside pvc lifting or floating? If you have flow over them, this may happen.

 

[bheron]

Just a quick update - no pics. Seems like microbubbles are starting to go away! Guess this doesnt happen overnight. Will be doing a WC tomorrow (50 gallons). Will keep an eye on the bubbles.


I turned my skimmer back on after it had been off for about 5 days. Wow, it collected a full cup of skimmate overnight! Usually took 3 days to get to that level. Also, I did something I've been meaning to do with it - I rasied it up so that its sitting in only 6-8 inches of water, like the MFR suggest. I really think this has helped the performance alot.

On the same subject, I've been browsing the forum here for a skimmer updgrade. I'd like to get a monster one, capable for a 300-400g tank. Buying new is just too expensive, so Im hoping to buy used. I know, with RC here, if I hold out long enough the right deal will come along.

But, its posed another question: for a skimmer that large, would it be more cost efficient to DIY? I read somehwere (TGunn, I think?) someone saying that he wished he didnt DIY for the skimmer. BUt, if a brand new Euro-reef is going for $750, I wonder if I can build something on my own?

Thought? Not worth the money versus the level of quality?

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6779666#post6779666 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bheron
Just a quick update - no pics. Seems like microbubbles are starting to go away! Guess this doesnt happen overnight. Will be doing a WC tomorrow (50 gallons). Will keep an eye on the bubbles.


I turned my skimmer back on after it had been off for about 5 days. Wow, it collected a full cup of skimmate overnight! Usually took 3 days to get to that level. Also, I did something I've been meaning to do with it - I rasied it up so that its sitting in only 6-8 inches of water, like the MFR suggest. I really think this has helped the performance alot.

On the same subject, I've been browsing the forum here for a skimmer updgrade. I'd like to get a monster one, capable for a 300-400g tank. Buying new is just too expensive, so Im hoping to buy used. I know, with RC here, if I hold out long enough the right deal will come along.

But, its posed another question: for a skimmer that large, would it be more cost efficient to DIY? I read somehwere (TGunn, I think?) someone saying that he wished he didnt DIY for the skimmer. BUt, if a brand new Euro-reef is going for $750, I wonder if I can build something on my own?

Thought? Not worth the money versus the level of quality?

Hey Bryan,

The thing I've noticed with DIY is that it doesn't seem you'll save much money. If you've got the tools and skills to do it I think you can get a "bigger and better" product that'll meet your needs exactly.

I had priced out a DIY skimmer, but once I started adding up the cost of the acrylic tubing (about $100 CDN, and if I messed up the tubing I'd be out $$$), sheet acrylic, router bits, pipe taps, etc, I'd end up pretty close to just buying one. The monster skimmer I got was a fluke; the LFS had it on sale (just one) and I got it for a great price.

I really like the larger skimmer; it works really well and I know I'm ready for a larger system in the future.. What don't I like about it? The pump for it is a PCX-70. I've measured it to use 400w of power. OUCH! That's around $13 per month just to run this skimmer. In all reality I wish I'd have sent with a needlewheel since they seem to use a lot less power.

Now, that said, I'd still LOVE to build my own skimmer or Ca reactor at some point. Would be a cool project; really challenging and fun IMHO.

I'd say if you're not afraid to experiment and try building one, give it a shot. Having a skimmer already means you can tinker with a DIY one until you get it right and THEN decommision the existing skimmer. That's one of the big reasons I bought premade to start.

Glad to see the microbubbles are going away! I've got to get my butt to the plumbing store one day to get a few parts to fix my microbubbles; my return pump is cavitating mildly and it blows bubbles into the display.

Later,
Tyler

 

[melev]

My Euro-Reef 12-2 is a huge skimmer at 12" in diameter and 30" tall, and with the two Sedra 5000 pumps running it, it only pulls 81w per hour.

It is a good reliable skimmer and worth every penny. It does need 18" x 18" of space, but my sump was built to hold that skimmer. And it is rated for 500g, where my system runs 330g of volume.