2300G Cylinder - Preview

[amehel0]

hate to bring an old post up but im currently doing a course on aquaculture, and to hear someone tell you that ozone and uv are useless at preventing disease should kill themselves or at least make themselves scarce. ozone in creases the ORP which optimises the environment for probiotic bacteria(good bacteria) and reduces it for cynobacter and other bacteria. it also breaks up protein chains making them easier to skim out and filter out. uv will kill algae ich and cynobacter and so many other things. dont waste ur time with a 9w uv get a 50-90w uv.

anyhow rant over saying that ozone is useless is stupid, it is very usefull.

 

[Diablo]

amehel0,

I agree that UV and ozone can be useful if its use is well understood. I didn't continue on with the discussion because sometimes when people state an opinion very strongly in a public forum, the only way for the discussion to go is mutual disagreement.

The fact is, that in a recirculating system where UV is used in an external loop, its effectiveness is often limited - the main tank acts as a resevoir of pathogens and even if the kill rate through the UV is 100%, the pathogens in the main tank reproduce quicker than they are killed. Also, by definition, pathogens spend part of their lifecycle on a host. Whilst on the host, they can't be touched by the UV. I will not be using UV in this way.

The use of UV that research does support is to "isolote" two systems. I will be using UV on the effluent of my "isolation and oservation" system to prevent any disease in new aquisitions from transfering to the main system. I have carefully calculated flows, UV intensity and kill rates or cryptocarions and am confident in my engineering.

Whilst ozone has many uses, my primary use will be to maintain water clarity.

As a point of form, I can't imagine moderators would be happy with "should kill themselves"... its a colorful expression, but perhaps a little excessive for a general board?

 

[Diablo]

On another topic, after weeks of stuffing around, we have finally signed the building contract and should make a start very soon.

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15107112#post15107112 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Diablo

The use of UV that research does support is to "isolote" two systems. I will be using UV on the effluent of my "isolation and oservation" system to prevent any disease in new aquisitions from transfering to the main system. I have carefully calculated flows, UV intensity and kill rates or cryptocarions and am confident in my engineering.

I'm very interested to learn more about this; how you calculated out the flow rates, necessary UV etc to make sure that everything would be eliminated. Most people shy away from something like this because of the "well, what if something slips by" factor. But I've always figured it should be possible to do it right so that the systems were effective separated.

Tyler

 

[damer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15107115#post15107115 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Diablo
On another topic, after weeks of stuffing around, we have finally signed the building contract and should make a start very soon.

Great news Mark.

is the tank in storage?

 

[Robb in Austin]

Update?

 

[29reef]

The drawings of the HVAC system back in 2008 is never one I would install knowing what I know about tanks, water, and HVAC. I hope someone has changed the locations of the dampers and fans. This is a very nice and unique aquarium no matter if its full or empty.

 

[Diablo]

Escavation on site started this week!

I will post some photos this weekend.

29reef, HVAC is perhaps my least competent area of design.

Having built largish aquaria in rooms with poor ventilation, I am under no doubt as to the importance of getting it right, but I have very little expertise.

Are you able to share some ideas / recommendations?

 

[EnderG60]

I would recommend you do both a fresh air intake and exhaust out of your fish room, also using things like a humidistat and air exchanger will help save money while keeping your house free of humid air.

Basically try to seperate the tank and equipment room from the house ventilation as much as possible.

 

[MSX-Jeff]

You may also want to investigate if you will need/benefit from a HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilator).

 

[29reef]

Diablo,

I will do my best to give you a few suggestions that you can choose to use. I suggest you have a licensed and qualified HVAC company do you install. It helps if they have an aquarium at home

A few good ideas have been mentioned already; fresh outside air and a HRV. Fresh outside makeup air is a good idea if it is to building code. From the looks of things the tank is not going to be located near an outside wall so you will have to supply a passive sorce from the outside. I suggest you size the duct according to the exaust system. HRV is also a very important thing to buy in the system. I dont have any brand to reccomend as I've only dealt with a few. I would centralize it if possible or use it in the area with the greatest heat and water volume. I also suggest inline or inplace dehumidifiers in all tank areas to help with comfort.

Okay now onto a bit on materials. With the growing advances in plastics I suggest you seek out a plastic material that you can put in the foundation(but make sure your duct intake is in the celing;heat rises) that way it wont occupy much of your living space. I think youll be using between 8-10'' round duct for most of the air movement. I would also suggest plastic inline fans placed at the end of your service line, make sure these are easy to clean; they will build up with salt residue over the years (the nice part of plastic duct is its easy to have cleaned) also butterfly dampers after the fans.

Hmmm well heres some links to fans and ducting I was talking about.

Example of a smallish plastic inline fan. This one is made by fantec and is 110/115vac
http://www.ventingdirect.com/fantec...9-cfm-115-volts-8-round-duct-diameter/p532576

This is a plastic nonflexable duct
http://www.harvel.com/duct-cpvc.asp...m=PPC&utm_content=PVC206hot&utm_campaign=duct

Hopefully some of this has helped Im sure I'll be posting again.

 

[cdeboard]

Wow nice... subscribed.. future TOTM?

 

[asmodeus]

DUDE

 

[FUA]

any FTS updates

 

[GoToSleep]

I used 6" Shedule 40 PVC for the ductwork for my tank. My HVAC guy had used PVC for duct work no a previous occasion when they put the duct work down and poured the concrete floor over it.

 

[Diablo]

At last the work has started! Tank will be brought on site last week of October / First week of November.

Here's some pics:

Escavation: The site has a gentle slop of ~ 3' from rear right to front left. The site has been cut at the rear ~2' and slightly filled at the front. There is a step-down of 1' between the main part of the house and the front bedrooms to minimise cut and fill. The cut area will be managed by a timber retaining wall.

Escavation - Rear Corner: This is a closer view of the cut in the rear corner, showing the galvernised retaining wall uprights.

Hole for 15,850 Gal Rain Water Tank: This is a fairly impressive hole! Although it doesn't look it in the photo, this hole is 12' deep. It also clearly shows the soil structure... about 2' sandy loam on top of clay.

Tank Construction: Drought-proofing our veggie garden the old fashion way. Not quite sure how they got it here, but its big!

Oh, and my skimmer is going to MACNA before making the trip across the Pacific.

 

[Diablo]

I'm very interested to learn more about this; how you calculated out the flow rates, necessary UV etc to make sure that everything would be eliminated. Most people shy away from something like this because of the "well, what if something slips by" factor. But I've always figured it should be possible to do it right so that the systems were effective separated.

tgunn, sorry so long for the reply, but this data is very hard to find and I had to dig to pull it up.

You really only need two pieces of data:
1) Irradiance required to kill the beastie in question
2) Performance data of UV sterilizer.

In this case, C. irritans is one of the hardest things to kill, requiring over 10 times the dose of common bacteria. Specifically, 280,000 uWs/cm2. A chart of common aquarium nasties can be found here. Emperor Aquatics

Next theUV sterilizer I have in mind is an AquaUV SL100. The chart here specifies the flow rate for a given required dosage.

You can see in the chart that the SL100 delivers a dose of 90,000 uWs/cm2 at a flow rate of 900 GPH.

In this case, I need a dosage that is 280,000 / 90,000 = 3.11 times the maximum dose in the chart. Given that UV sterilizers drop to 1/2 effectiveness over the lamp life, I will double the factor to be sure (6.22).

Now to get a dose that is 6.22 x higher, I need the flow rate to be 6.22 times less... so if I limit the flow through the system to 900GPH / 6.22 ~= 145GPH, then I have dimensioned the system properly.

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15583542#post15583542 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Diablo
tgunn, sorry so long for the reply, but this data is very hard to find and I had to dig to pull it up.

You really only need two pieces of data:
1) Irradiance required to kill the beastie in question
2) Performance data of UV sterilizer.

In this case, C. irritans is one of the hardest things to kill, requiring over 10 times the dose of common bacteria. Specifically, 280,000 uWs/cm2. A chart of common aquarium nasties can be found here. Emperor Aquatics

Next theUV sterilizer I have in mind is an AquaUV SL100. The chart here specifies the flow rate for a given required dosage.

You can see in the chart that the SL100 delivers a dose of 90,000 uWs/cm2 at a flow rate of 900 GPH.

In this case, I need a dosage that is 280,000 / 90,000 = 3.11 times the maximum dose in the chart. Given that UV sterilizers drop to 1/2 effectiveness over the lamp life, I will double the factor to be sure (6.22).

Now to get a dose that is 6.22 x higher, I need the flow rate to be 6.22 times less... so if I limit the flow through the system to 900GPH / 6.22 ~= 145GPH, then I have dimensioned the system properly.

Hey Diablo,
Thanks so much for that information. I'll definitely keep that in mind when it comes time to plan my next big system. I've always thought it should be possible to safely keep a QT tank plugged into the main system.

I'll be very interested to see how this works for you!
Tyler

 

[Elliott]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15583542#post15583542 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Diablo

Now to get a dose that is 6.22 x higher, I need the flow rate to be 6.22 times less... so if I limit the flow through the system to 900GPH / 6.22 ~= 145GPH, then I have dimensioned the system properly. [/QUOTE

I wasn't aware you could effectively use a downsized UV that way, for the display alone it will take 18.4 hrs for just one pass through the UV (2300/145)

 

[Oldude]

Wow this is incredible. Can't wait to see it progress to fruition.