265G show + 125G sump - Reef Tank project in a constant evolution

[BlackShark087]

Hi Everyone,

I am from Montreal South shore, Quebec, Canada, This project is gonna be my fourth Fish Tank project and for the first time my jump from fresh to salt. I will provide evolution over time.

Numbers (estimate) :

water volume : 350 gallons
weight : 2 tons.
waterflow : 3 000 GPH
Building time : no time limit my favorite part is the building part so I will take all the time I can
Corals & fish : Few large corals but not overcrowded, Many small fishes schooling & 1 big boss
Lot of live-rocks but in sump.

Equipements :

Show tank : 265 Gallons Marineland 2 Corner flow / 84"X24"X30" / 2 520 Lbs. Filled weight
the back and the bottom is painted with Black MetalForce Paint

House preparation : I ran 2X 1'' PVC pipes to the garage for the quarantine And my saltwater preparation tank, 1 X ¼'' line for the RO, 1X 1 1/2'' ABS sewer, 1X floor drain, 1 X ½'' Tap water.

The Stand and canopy go from floor to ceiling: 12 ply / Plywood Framing , Walnut Doors and mouldings, Stainless steel screws, urethane varnish.

Plumbing : 2 corner flow, with 4 holes, I will run Double Herbie & wet straight to the sump controlled by 2 X 1 ½'' gate valves. (This is not that much a real RR tank because holes are too small, my smallest part of the system is the nipples is a 1 ¼'' used to fit those holes. All the plumbing is 1 1\2'' white PVC sc40. My goal is to reach around 3 000 gph. My main restriction is the corners overflow that cant really take more than 1 500gph. I will cut the teeth tolet more flow get in.


Sump : 125 Gallons Marineland Regular Tanl / 72"X18"X22" / 1 160 Lbs. Filled weight, the back and the bottom is painted with Black MetalForce Paint , Water get by the middle then go left and drop step by step to the return pump at the right with the liveRocks. Glass Custom baffles.

Shopping cart list just a starting point still need to figure out if those are the best for my need I want Silent/Silent/Silent and durability :

4X Filter Sock 200 Micron Poly with Plastic Oring 4x14

Aquamax / JNS ConeS Q-6 in sump skimmer 12'' cylinder
http://www.jnsaquaria.com/2007html/products/list.php?CatId=25&lang=eng

Sicce Syncra Highflow 16.0 in sump. with a controller
http://www.sicce.com/prodottiDettaglio_eng.php/prodotto=syncra-highflow-10.0-12.0-16.0/idprodotto=78


MAxspect led Fixture
http://www.maxspect.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2

FlowControl wavemaker
http://oceansmotions.com/products.html

2X Maxspect Gyre XF150
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/pumps-plumbing/aquarium-powerhead-pumps/maxspect-gyre.html

Apex Controller
https://www.neptunesystems.com/products/apex-controllers/

Reverse Osmosis WRG-150
http://www.watergroup.com/pdf-folder/brochures/commercial-reverse-osmosis-57067.pdf


to be continued"¦

Thank you for appreciation but what I want most is sharing your knowledge and experience so feel free to constructive criticism.

 

[CuzzA]

So, from this and seeing your other thread I have some suggestions...

First, your sump design. It looks very complicated and has a few problems. I'll just follow the path of water. The drainpipe settling area is going to collect a ton of detritus and given the small space and location it will make it very difficult to clean. Also 4" filter bags will clog very fast on this size tank, especially putting that kind of volume through them. I would instead have your two full siphons drain directly into 7" bags. There is also no need for holes to hold the bag below the water level.

I would reconsider the center section in this sump altogether. Splitting an 18" sump in half and trying to put that much flow through your sump will likely create a very turbulent sump not to mention make it difficult to maintain. The more open and simple the sump, the easier to maintain and the easier to maintain, the more likely you'll be to maintain it. Also I would not want a bunch of rock in my return section. The rock likely will not be necessary anyway.

Instead of the center section I would just run your drains to the left side. A nice big compartment for the bags and skimmer, then a bubble trap. While the current configuration of your bubble trap (under, over, under) will be more effective for eliminating bubbles, the problem is surface scum will collect at the top of the water. It's best to go over, under, over for that reason. The only source of bubbles in a full siphon system would be from the skimmer, which shouldn't be a problem with any bubble trap. From your skimmer section and given the amount of flow you intend on putting throught this sump, you really have only one option for a refugium or similar. That is to make the next section the return section and then tee off the return to a refugium on the right side and have the water flow back over a baffle.

Finally, I noticed you mentioned running pipe to your garage for your qt and salt mixing tank. I just want to make sure you're not hooking your qt to your display. That would completely defeat the purpose of "quarantine" (isolation). Now you can use water change water from the display to do water changes for your qt, but that's going to require another pump in the sump which I don't see in your illustration. In fact I don't see another pump to run anything else. I highly suggest accounting for another pump in the return section running to a manifold to run various types of equipment. Plan ahead and try to figure out the different things you may add now or later. Things like, carbon and GFO reactors, bio pellet reactor, frag tank, uv sterillizer, calcium reactor, water change, even the refugium, etc. Like the ole saying goes, "Better to have and not need, than need and not have."

If you have a house drain anywhere near the tank or in the garage hook your system up to it. It will make life much easier.

One last point on you equipment list is the oceans motion switcher. There is no use for this on this setup. You could use the ocean motion oscillating returns or sea swirls for mixing up the return flow (a good idea), but ultimately you just want to get the filtered water back to the display and let your wave makers send that water to all area of your tank.

Hope this helps.

 

[BlackShark087]

Help a lot, perhaps I have few restriction
- I dont want to run 7 feet long return from left to right that will need an horizontal pipe that could break my siphon
- The first section can only accommodate the skimmer because im going for a 12"cylinder
- There is no refugium (I dont want any source of light in my sump to reduce algea) I plan to place in the middle reactors, pumps, media bags this is just a level zone.
- Instead of all the overloaded showtank I want a minimalist setup with only few big corals. so I want most of my liverock in the sump, thats might not be the best idea to place them with the pump.. mayby an outside pump is a better choice I dont know yet but I prefer everything inside to prevent leak.
- the center section of my refugium have the house drain, the 2X 1inch pipe to get water change from the show to the quarantine, RO or drop by drop constant water change, from the garage, tap water (We never know if we need it just a 1/2 inch pipe if I need to feed from something maybe...)
- I dont know yet If I go for a manifold or few small pumps my guess few small pump offer more flexibility.
- finaly the ocean motion is more a fancy add one that can mix the return flow like you said but thats really not something I need to run the tank thats true just wanted some reaction

Come back to me about how you see it I will draw a new design based on your suggestion.

 

[CuzzA]

There's quite a few tanks like this that are plumbed with the far drain going to the other side. As long as you can keep a consistent drop. Perhaps an alternative would be to have your drains and bags on either side and just make a large center section with a bubble trap going to a return box. Rocks in your sump would be a poor choice for biological filtration, IMO. They are just going to collect detritus and be counter productive unless you consistently pull them out and clean them. No different than bio balls. Instead I would do what many people do with a minimalist aquascape and use marine pure ceramic blocks. Less prone to collecting detritus and very easy to clean. You can put them anywhere and everywhere in the sump. Not to mention according to the study BRS conducted they have a larger and more porous surface area compared to most live rock.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KtbsCPlBnQg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[BlackShark087]

Oh my god Thank you so much I am going with MarinePure all the way in the sump!!!

Im actually figuring that no matter the distance between the baffles so over, under, over with the under in the center... Next steep you think Its better 2 X 7 inch instead of 4 X 4 inch socks? or go crazy with 4 X 4 inch and 1 X 7 inch in the middle !

 

[CuzzA]

Perhaps lose the reactors in the sump altogether. Plumb them out to the garage. I hate reaching under my stand trying to unscrew reactors and not spill water in my house as I'm changing out media. IME, it's a pita. My new setup has many things plumbed to my fish closet so I can be standing up and just do work.

7" bags. Those 4" bags are made for small tanks. This is a big tank. Even on my 90 I wouldn't run a 4" bag with 800 gph. The would overflow in less than a day.

 

[BlackShark087]

Here we go baffles fixed ! 3X 7inch filter socks + 6X 8x8x4 MarinePure Blocks (good for 1000 Gallons system) I raised the skimmer to a proper waterlevel at the same time. all this with an even more simple design. what you think about that?

 

[ca1ore]

I have the same tank, and I used to live in Beaconsfield in Montreal (still a Habs fan) - when worlds collide :lol:. You've already bettered my design by going with a bigger sump. At 75 gallons, mine is marginal. I like the doors over the overflows; been toying with doing something similar myself.

 

[footyreefer]

Following. Love the OP sump!

 

[BlackShark087]

I have the same tank, and I used to live in Beaconsfield in Montreal (still a Habs fan) - when worlds collide :lol:. You've already bettered my design by going with a bigger sump. At 75 gallons, mine is marginal. I like the doors over the overflows; been toying with doing something similar myself.

Thanks, what do you think about the sump and what is your flow rate? I was targeting 3 000 GPH at the beginning but seam too extreme, Now my guess is more around 2 000 GPH finally. I simplified the sump desgin, now I still have to figure out what kind of equipment I need. What do you use in your sump?

What kin dof return pump you use to? external/ internal? I want to get a sicce syncra HF 12.0

 

[BlackShark087]

Following. Love the OP sump!

what you mean by OP ?

 

[footyreefer]

Over Powered

 

[BlackShark087]

Over Powered

Haha Thanks Yes I always say too strong cant break.

 

[ca1ore]

Thanks, what do you think about the sump and what is your flow rate? I was targeting 3 000 GPH at the beginning but seam too extreme, Now my guess is more around 2 000 GPH finally. I simplified the sump desgin, now I still have to figure out what kind of equipment I need. What do you use in your sump?

What kin dof return pump you use to? external/ internal? I want to get a sicce syncra HF 12.0

I subscribe to the 'lower flow through sump' approach, so my GPH is low at about 900 (so nominally 3x tank volume). I 'compensate' with very high in-tank flow, but have never seen the need for high flow through the sump. I'm using an external PanWorld 150PS. Check out my build thread here, CT265 Build, for the excruciating details.

 

[CuzzA]

The new design looks much better. I would eliminate the center filter bag. It's not going to do anything for you and would be a pita to change because of the center cross brace. In fact, you may even want to consider having the bags in the front on the sump so they can easily be changed. Design your system with ease of maintenance in mind. The easier it is to maintain, the more likely you are to do it.

 

[BlackShark087]

The new design looks much better. I would eliminate the center filter bag. It's not going to do anything for you and would be a pita to change because of the center cross brace. In fact, you may even want to consider having the bags in the front on the sump so they can easily be changed. Design your system with ease of maintenance in mind. The easier it is to maintain, the more likely you are to do it.

I will post a picture of the room I have over the sump but I have plenty, the third May not be use it is more a back up if the other clog. Can you tell me All the possible equipments part I need to place in sump I want to figure the best possible my space.

 

[BlackShark087]

Last shoot Still asking for you help for equipments add on

 

[dave.m]

You wrote me asking me to comment on your thread, so here goes:

Do the socks HAVE to be in the centre of the sump? In my opinion it is better to run the sump from one end to the other: 7" socks at one end, then to skimmer section, then to media reactors section, and finally to return pump section at the other end.

I see no use in trying to run a tiny refugium in the sump. If you want a refugium run it as a separate tank. If you are thinking of setting up a minimalist display tank and think you will need more nitrifying surface consider getting those Marine Pure blocks from BRS and putting them in the media reactor section of the sump.

Your return pump (and therefore flow-through) only needs to be as large as the skimmer's feed requirement. You don't need a super powerful return pump as you shouldn't be relying on this for flow within the display tank. That's what closed loops and/or powerheads are for.

Hope that helps,

Dave.M

 

[BlackShark087]

You wrote me asking me to comment on your thread, so here goes:

Do the socks HAVE to be in the centre of the sump? In my opinion it is better to run the sump from one end to the other: 7" socks at one end, then to skimmer section, then to media reactors section, and finally to return pump section at the other end.

I see no use in trying to run a tiny refugium in the sump. If you want a refugium run it as a separate tank. If you are thinking of setting up a minimalist display tank and think you will need more nitrifying surface consider getting those Marine Pure blocks from BRS and putting them in the media reactor section of the sump.

Your return pump (and therefore flow-through) only needs to be as large as the skimmer's feed requirement. You don't need a super powerful return pump as you shouldn't be relying on this for flow within the display tank. That's what closed loops and/or powerheads are for.

Hope that helps,

Dave.M

Yes I need to keep my socks in the center, Yes I will use MarinePure blocks for sure, the 2 Last things I am asking myself is

- Do I need a refugium I am pretty sure I have no need for a refugium if so I can split the third section in half keep half back for refugium and half front for the return pump , but I dont want any light in my sump so no refugium run without light. I dont seen the need of a refugium.

- What other kind of equipment need to be fit in the sump ? / How can I use better my third section (keep in mind that the water level in this section will be variable)

The main question is Do my third section variable water level is too big for nothing ? (It look pretty empty)

 

[dave.m]

The only thing about variable water levels in the sump is that skimmers tend to be very sensitive to water levels and will foam and overflow all over the place. You must keep the water level stable at least in the skimmer section.

Dave.M