400 Gallon Tank Crack

Jer_harbor said:
For all of the Expert tank builders in this thread 1/2" glass in exceptionable for this build. Here is a tank calculator that is use by a new tank manufactures.

http://www.theaquatools.com/building-your-aquarium

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yr1degxl5kc8vze/Tank Specs.jpg?dl=0
Click to expand...

Cool calculator. Thx for posting. Ive been looking for something like this for a long time now and haven't been able to find anything.

After entering the tank dimensions and using the commonly used safety factor of 3.8, the glass thickness came to .70 which would be almost 3/4" .
 
Jer_harbor said:
For all of the Expert tank builders in this thread 1/2" glass in exceptionable for this build. Here is a tank calculator that is use by a new tank manufactures.

http://www.theaquatools.com/building-your-aquarium

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yr1degxl5kc8vze/Tank Specs.jpg?dl=0
Click to expand...

Mr. Meadows the word you are looking for is acceptable. The best part is exceptionable actually means to object or disapprove.

I didn't realize I paid this much money for a custom aquarium to just be acceptable. Unless you are trying to say exceptional? Not even close. Using the calculator you provided it should have been 3/4''. By the way if you change the safe factor to 1.9 it shows the aquarium is deemed not safe based on using 13mm glass which is 0.51 of an inch.

So you need to ask yourself why are you participating in the response of this thread trying to defend Planet Aquariums when Jerry can't even return my phone call or even represent themselves here?
 
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billsreef said:
BTW, when did they start growing banana trees in Texas? Come to think of it, I never knew there was a town named Dubai in Texas either.
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Billsreef

You are correct as I am in Texas, however my point was it doesn't matter who or where your from or what you do. You can still be an exceptionally knowledgable hobbyists. My 7 year old can tell you all kinds of information about not just my livestock, but how the tank works and what's important to make it work. (Here's where the peanut gallery chimes in). But there are folks on here that would rather bash you and a company because they think they are better and can hide behind a keyboard. Yes, I agree that there are multiple factors that led to the catastrophic failure. However very few ever asked and seemed offended that I did ask the hard questions. He never answered them and instead others jumped all over because I tried to give the manufacture the benifit of the doubt. I choose to educate my self before buying and about how things work. At some point we have to accept responsibility for things and stop blaming someone else. Yes maybe there was a flaw in the glass. Maybe the stand was bad, maybe just maybe he caused the crack knowingly or unknowingly and just trying to bully the manufacturer. Everyone bashes the builder what about the Store that sold it? Why didn't they inform the buyer? But in the end, you as the consumer should always educate yourself before investing in anything. Have a great day.
 
Reefmonkey8843 said:
Billsreefhowever my point was it doesn't matter who or where your from or what you do.
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If that was the point you wanted to make, you sure did the wrong way, unless you were looking to undermine your credibility. Zobp was asked to post picture showing how his stand was built, which he did. Then you come out of nowhere accusing him of posting pictures that aren't his stand...with absolutely no reason to think he posted pictures of anything other than his stand. You keep hammering on this, despite the pictures having been posted before you came along, and despite the fact that pictures on an internet forum really aren't going tell us anything when such a crack could be caused by minutiae that won't show in a photo. When asked about your location, had you admitted you lived in general area of the tank builder, you at least would have some credibility. Being absurd about your location just undermines your creditably...and having someone register to post solely on thread about a specific manufacturer or vendor is an act that historically has been (verifiably) linked to a high percentage of shills. As a result your not doing Planet Aquariums any favors with the manor in which your posting.

As far as I'm concerned the subject of stand pictures is a closed matter (and this isn't a request). I prefer not to close thread or use the ban button, but if necessary....
 
themaddhatter said:
Amen... Back to the original topic, has there been any progress with you talks with PA?
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Negative I got a call Wednesday being threatened with a loss of income suit because of "slander" but I have yet to speak any mis-truths so I have no idea his basis for that.

But he assures me they are "pro consumer" and are working on something for me.

He was supposed to get back to me 2 days ago so still waiting for a decision, really didn't think it took that long to say yes we are going to fix this or no we aren't. It seems to be a no brainer, don't understand trying to lead me on if they aren't going to fix it unless I pay them to do so with the initial agreement.

At this point I have lost hope on a satisfactory solution.
 
You sound pretty on top of it, just wanted to say I wouldn't do anything more on the phone, personally. Email will serve as a record that you attempted to resolve in good faith, and people seem to behave a little more profesh when they know they are leaving a paper trail. You already have a lot of "he said she said" making this messy, Y'know?

Also, lol@ slander. If they're thinking of the Yelp suits, you are correct the truth of the statements made was probative. A more interesting question is whether calling someone and threatening to sue in order to bully them into removing a negative post is a form of harassment...
Either way it's bad business.
 
Zobp said:
Negative I got a call Wednesday being threatened with a loss of income suit because of "slander" but I have yet to speak any mis-truths so I have no idea his basis for that.

But he assures me they are "pro consumer" and are working on something for me.

He was supposed to get back to me 2 days ago so still waiting for a decision, really didn't think it took that long to say yes we are going to fix this or no we aren't. It seems to be a no brainer, don't understand trying to lead me on if they aren't going to fix it unless I pay them to do so with the initial agreement.

At this point I have lost hope on a satisfactory solution.
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If they threatened you with a slander suit then there is no point waiting. Take it to small claims court immediately or find a lawyer and go to town.

I will say that when my 24g AIO tank cracked and flooded my apartment, I documented the whole thing on another forum. Not one single post questioned my stand or my stance against the tank builder. Not saying this is a "forum a" vs "forum b" issue but more likely Manufacturer A vs Manufacturer B. The trolls on this thread are quite obviously not normal friendly consumers.

Sometimes companies learn very painful lessons when their management doesn't see the bigger picture. I would say you should do some teaching.



Edit: I'd like to add that even if the tank breaking was somehow your fault, a stand-up company would NEVER threaten a lawsuit to a disgruntled customer. They would say "Nope, can't replace. Very sorry." and be done with it.
 
Well, I certainly hope you get at least a semi-satisfactory resolution to this. If nothing else, you've done us all a good turn by reinforcing the need to really 'read the fine print'; something I know I do not do rigorously enough.
 
albano said:
I was not aware that if your old posts are 'archived', that your post count is reduced.
Click to expand...

We had to do some heavy archiving some time ago, anyone that wasn't active in that time period did loose some post count in the process when we made a major software upgrade afterwards. Those that were active, retained their post counts. It was just the way the software worked at the time, not an effort to reduce post counts.
 
Some posts have been removed, please remember, don't add fuel to the fire and...

[flamealert]
 
Man, I hope that you get a good resolution from PA on this one. Your stand looks bulletproof. 2x8's with 3/4" plywood, and then 2x4 supporting members, that thing is most certainly strong enough. If it was level, and not twisted, then I think that they need to consider a full replacement. You MAY have to pay the cost delta between a 1/2" tank and a 3/4" tank, which may be substantial, but it would be worth it I would feel. Also, I'd take a good long look at the stand if they do replace it to ensure that it is flat and level, just to be safe.

To PA, threatening someone with slander just for explaining a situation, even if it is one-sided, on a forum is not a good business practice and possibly harassment. You don't need this bad press. The 2K that a replacement tank is going to cost you is worth it. You don't need this thread coming up every time someone searches RC for your name. Think long game, not short.

Anyhow, good luck. OP, I hope that you are somehow satisfied in this process, and keep us posted please.
 
All it would take, is to have built one corner of the stand an 1/8" higher and the kitty corner a 1/16" of an inch lower and now you have a 3/16" difference. Add in the fact that it was 1/2" glass, it is quite possible that the tank could twist when settling as it is filled, causing it to crack. Does it take more than 3/16" to accomplish this? Not sure as I am not an engineer. All I can say is that if you put a rigid frame on a stand with that type of issue, it would rock...A 400 gallon tank, filled with water would distort as the silicone will allow a certain amount of distortion before failing.
In one sense I agree with the fella wanting to see pics of the stand, but the other guy is also right, as the pics would not show anything since the tank is already damaged/distorted, if the stand was in fact the issue. The only way to do it, is to measure each corners height.
I also agree that we should not just bash companies. Peoples livelihoods are at stake, and as a business owner, I know what it takes to build a company and it takes nothing to destroy a reputation. Not saying he is right or wrong. I just think all the facts need to be had, and this forum could probably never attain this.

I am not sure how topics like this, make some people think it is ok to bash anothers opinion or accuse him of things. I for one come on here because it is suppose to be a "COMMUNITY" of like minded people. People who are looking to become informed. To me that is created by discussion. Discussions that may have opinions that you think are "stupid", "ignorant" or whatever...Seems simpler to be the bigger man and just state your rebuttal/opinion in a fashion that may make the other think about his, maybe even making him change it, rather than bashing them, which will almost always get the same response, which just makes us all look like children.

Sorry, just wanted to add my opinion.
 
I, for one, am a mechanical and ocean engineer, and I will be the first one to tell you that I do not have the time or ambition to calculate the stresses involved and the yield strength of the glass that would point to a likely failure caused by either A. the stand or B. the tank bowing due to water pressure, or C. some inclusion, impurity, or construction error, or D. any combination of the above.

Basically, it would be a hard nut to crack without nailing down a lot of the variables. That being said, if they wanted to replace the tank or give you a deep discount on a new one, it would be good on them (the good PR would help their cause), if they told you to shove off, it would stink, but they probably could not be proven wrong (proving your stand to be perfect, even under load, would be quite an undertaking unfortunately). Ideally, you both find a compromise that is amicable and move forward.

My suggestion would be they sell you a 3/4" glass tank at their cost, or even slightly less, and you take the hit and buy it. Better tank for you at a fraction of the price of new.

Whether you buy their stand this time or trust your own, that is your call...
 
I don't get how anyone can complain about the OP "bashing" the company. He didn't even say who it was at first, and has been very matter of fact and just stating facts. He just posted what had happened. He hasn't even said anything harsh or even emotional (something that cannot be said about several other posters).

That the company is harassing him now about "slander" is pretty concerning. How about they refute his points in writing?

If it's not under warranty beyond 90 days, it's not under warranty. End of that story.
Would other people like to know that underbuilt tanks are cracking and the builder refuses to step up and do the right thing? I sure would.
 
OrQidz said:
I don't get how anyone can complain about the OP "bashing" the company. He didn't even say who it was at first, and has been very matter of fact and just stating facts. He just posted what had happened. He hasn't even said anything harsh or even emotional (something that cannot be said about several other posters).

That the company is harassing him now about "slander" is pretty concerning. How about they refute his points in writing?

If it's not under warranty beyond 90 days, it's not under warranty. End of that story.
Would other people like to know that underbuilt tanks are cracking and the builder refuses to step up and do the right thing? I sure would.
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I agree. I originally asked if OP would say what company it was. It wasn't until after the company originally said no to making the situation right did OP mention their name, at my request. As a consumer, I like knowing of issues from all companies. I also realize that one experience by one person doesn't define any company. I am sure we ca equally find someone who had a wonderful experience dealing with the company.

Regardless of the quality of any product, to me, a companies customer service is most important. IMO, I want to know that a company is willing to try and make any situation right. I am NOT SAYING that the customer is always right as we all know that some people try really hard to take advantage of some companies. I don't believe to be the case here. If this was about to buy an new tank, I would expect the manufacturer to stand behind it longer than what had happened here.

In all honesty, my tank, although the most important piece of equipment, is one of the cheaper things in this hobby. Just think how much money you would be out if your tank burst one day while you were gone. All your fish dead. All your corals dead. All the time you have wrapped up in setting it up and taking care of your system. And then you have whatever cost for clean up and potential water damage. It's a scary thought.

Going back to the customer service issue. My old lfs was awesome. If you bought a fish from them and it didn't make it for some reason, you could bring it back and he would order you a new one at cost. I had no problem with them making money one the first fish, that is what a business is all about. But by offering to only charge cost on a replacement animal, I never felt taken advantage of (I only had this happen one time, in case you were wondering. Had a flame angel that just wouldn't eat after bringing home and putting in QT).
 
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