415 custom in-wall
- Thread starter phurst
- Start date
ridinshotgun
Premium Member
Sounds like you don't read too well.
Both of the other tanks were faulty tanks. Just like this one. And before you say anything yes I have seen the tank and it IS faulty as has been stated above.
Unfortunately this incident has greatly disheartened Vince. Today he was talking about getting out of reefing all together. Hopefully not since Vince's tanks were probably the best in the area and he helped many people get started with equipment and corals.
But don't let that stop anyone from throwing the above comment out there.
villious
Member
Hang in there Vince. Take it to court and then be done with it. Don't let this destroy your love of reefing.
There are always two sides to every story. I have no stake in either side here, but reading through this thread, I personally think that Vince is due a full refund and that SPA dropped the ball here in a major way.
It LOOKS like SPA assembled a bad tank (come on now, it was out of square.....we're not talking about complex angles here), and an effort was made to look at it, but all efforts after that seemed completely CYA. If the court decides SPA is in the wrong and awards Vince the case, then it will make SPA look even that much worse in the lack of customer support. For SPA it's a loose/loose situation. That's why businesses sometimes have to bite the bullet and cover the product, even if circumstances are in question, just as another aquarium manufacturer was quoted earlier in this thread.
A big red flag for me is, on Sean's email reply back to Vince, he never addressed the bottom seams in question, the out of square panels, and tried to divert attention to two other aquarium failures that had nothing to do with this. That's like taking your car back to the dealer and the dealer refusing to fix it because you had two other cars break in your lifetime. Sounds pretty fishy to me (no pun intended)
The problem here is that there are friends involved that are fiercely loyal and cant admit to mistakes being made and bad judgment being used. It's natural to want to stick up for your friends, especially if they are a "good guy".
This forum is full of opinions and this is mine, and in the end, the court will decide. Just out of curiosity, about how much does a tank that size cost?
There are always two sides to every story. I have no stake in either side here, but reading through this thread, I personally think that Vince is due a full refund and that SPA dropped the ball here in a major way.
It LOOKS like SPA assembled a bad tank (come on now, it was out of square.....we're not talking about complex angles here), and an effort was made to look at it, but all efforts after that seemed completely CYA. If the court decides SPA is in the wrong and awards Vince the case, then it will make SPA look even that much worse in the lack of customer support. For SPA it's a loose/loose situation. That's why businesses sometimes have to bite the bullet and cover the product, even if circumstances are in question, just as another aquarium manufacturer was quoted earlier in this thread.
A big red flag for me is, on Sean's email reply back to Vince, he never addressed the bottom seams in question, the out of square panels, and tried to divert attention to two other aquarium failures that had nothing to do with this. That's like taking your car back to the dealer and the dealer refusing to fix it because you had two other cars break in your lifetime. Sounds pretty fishy to me (no pun intended)
The problem here is that there are friends involved that are fiercely loyal and cant admit to mistakes being made and bad judgment being used. It's natural to want to stick up for your friends, especially if they are a "good guy".
This forum is full of opinions and this is mine, and in the end, the court will decide. Just out of curiosity, about how much does a tank that size cost?
Last edited:
Have you even read the SOS thread in the Richmond reef club thread? Heres another link to it for you to go back and look Noone in that tread said ANYTHING negative about the tank or Sean, or the company until Sean came out to look at the tank. An entire day went by on the thread without anything bad. Once Vince posted up the news on how Sean planned to handle the situation (First post under pictures, page 2) everyone started sharing their feelings about what the offer was. I don’t know how much these tanks run new, but I know it’s a pretty penny, and only owning a brand new custom tank for 8 months, and something like this happening, you and everyone else would be ****ed. Vince is a nice guy, I have only met him once at a frag swap, but he is well known in Richmond area, and my uncle (and his family) has had nothing negative to ever say about him. Vince has never said anything to slander Sean or SP Aquatics, so I don't see why a good business man would revoke a (poor) offer on a resolution to this issue. Vince cannot control what others say, this is the internet, all Vince did was ask for help on a public forum that many Richmond hobbyists read often throughout the day. After the first day of recovering his thousands in livestock and help from friends, Vince only posted what was said between him and Sean, and him and other manufacturers, which anyone would do in this situation, keep friends and other hobbyist who are concerned an on what’s happening.
All the facts are out on the table, and it will be up to the courts to decide on the outcome. The cause of the failure is the seams, which many have concluded it is from a poor joint. Those who have experience with acrylic say that a tank would not fail on a joint, the acrylic would craze or break before the joint would give.
RunningStix pointed out what is posted on SP Aquatics, and this goes against everything SP Aquatics says they stand for. If SP Aquatics wanted to stand out from the rest of local aquarium builders they would have offered to fix the problem without any questions, no matter whose fault (obviously if a stand has only 3 legs, and is 2 inches out of level on those 3 legs and the tank breaks. it’s the owners fault.) Vince has measured the panels on the tank, the tank is OBVIOUSLY not square, which would also add to stress to the joints.
I just don't see where the argument is on this. There are the people who have their opinion, and the people who think everyone is attacking Sean and SP Aquatics. Nooone has attacked either of them; everyone has the right to have their opinion, and the right to say whatever they want. This is a public forum as another member said, if you don’t like what is said, don’t sign on.
Justin1989
New member
$3,135.00 (fishtankdirect)
$ ~4,000.00 (myfishtank)
Pacific Reefs
New member
I am sorry for both parties involved. Are you able to post pictures of the seams that failed? This is really a nightmare!
phurst
Richmond Reefer
Yes, I'm going to try to get some this weekend or early next week. Vince is about a half hour from me, so I usualy make an evening of it. I had my camera over there last night, but got caught up shuffling some equipment trying to keep the massively overstocked 180 stable.
Amp2020
New member
I was really curious about what the breaks looked like so I stopped by and took a look. My only experience with acrylic is with 1/4" sheets and making overflow boxes and wet dry filters. I couldn't believe what I saw. It was true, that the seams look like they just came apart. I got my camera and took some pictures so that everyone could see this and that someone with more experience could tell whether or not these were good joints.
Here's what the tank looks like now.
The warped piece is the front panel that has complete come apart.
Another joint that came apart and a panel that is bowing
This doesn't look so good. Surprized that this one didn't fail already.
Very smooth to the touch. No signs that the two panels were ever bonded together other than a little hazing on the surface.
This is the only evidence that I see of a strong bond. You can see a chunk of the acrylic has broken off. The rest just looks like it let go of each other.
Another joint ready to come apart.
This looks like the place that the break occured. There signs of a patchup. See the area were there was little bonding between the two pieces. This may have been the weak point and where everthing started.
More pictures at
http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/Amp2020/
If you know something about bonding acrylic please comment on what you see.
Here's what the tank looks like now.
The warped piece is the front panel that has complete come apart.
Another joint that came apart and a panel that is bowing
This doesn't look so good. Surprized that this one didn't fail already.
Very smooth to the touch. No signs that the two panels were ever bonded together other than a little hazing on the surface.
This is the only evidence that I see of a strong bond. You can see a chunk of the acrylic has broken off. The rest just looks like it let go of each other.
Another joint ready to come apart.
This looks like the place that the break occured. There signs of a patchup. See the area were there was little bonding between the two pieces. This may have been the weak point and where everthing started.
More pictures at
http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/Amp2020/
If you know something about bonding acrylic please comment on what you see.
Amp2020
New member
I see no reason why not. The breaks are all very clean. Just sand the edges perfectly smooth and use some good solvent. The problem at this point is that the tank is scratched to hell. Using an acrylic scratch remover kit would take a straight week of sanding. I spent 15 minutes on one scratch and you can still see it. I've also seen tanks that have had scratches removed and it becomes very visible once any algae grows around it. Looks like a thin spot in the tank wall. Plus the entire tank would have lots of distortion. If it was ever fixed, the only thing it would be good for is a giant sump or holding tank.
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
Good lord.. It looks like almost every seam fell apart. Unreal..
MarineGirl411
New member
It does. I think I would have had a heart attack if that happened to me. Kind of makes me not want to set up my acrylic tank. =/ I'd be so upset, sad, frustrated. I am so sorry this happened to you.
phurst
Richmond Reefer
Ironically, the patched seam is by far the strongest on the tank. It did pretty much fall apart when we decided to move it out of the house to better repurpose the space and equipment. There were 5 of us moving it out of the house, so it's not like we were really man handling it, but we weren't super gentle at that point either.
Justin1989
New member
Make sure to keep those pictures, and many more. Makes this case very simple.
I am a tank builder and to answer this question the answer is no not really. To cut this down and re-machine it after the material has already been stressed will not work well. Asthetically it would be nearly impossible to get good joints (I use my own solvent mixture) and I would'nt warranty it for squat. From the pictures I see and in my experience it looks like the tank popped apart. By no means am I saying it's the stand or the quality of the build..................all I can say is from what I see in those pictures it just popped apart. It would make for some good scrap though to build some sumps.
Plankt0s
Premium Member
NAGA I am curious I get my solvent from a large custom acrylic shop (they make displays and magazine racks etc.) here in town and they make their own solvents. Mine is water thin and I have found that it works ALOT better then some of the honey thick stuff, what do you think?
Shops that are mixing their own are typically doing it specifically for the type of fabrication they are working on. The thicker (honey consistency) type like weldon 16 would not be used for strength. It has no bite in it when it sets up to cure as compared to others. Now Weldon 40 is a two part that is mixed one batch at a time. It has better strength than the 16 by quite a bit but, I woudn't use it for aquariums unless I was going to bake/anneal the tank after I assembled it. Weldon 40 to take advantage of it's capabilities you have to bake it or in other terms in the business anneal it. Weldon 40 also can be made up with a third component (an additive) C that gives it even more strength. I have been building tanks for 17-18yrs now and the custom solvent mixture IMO is the only way to go. You get far better bite and you will never see a seam pop cleanly that is done properly. I'll have to dig up the 750gallon reef tank pictures I took when I smashed the tank apart with a sledge hammer after the tank was running for 5yrs.. Not in any spot did it break along the seam.
I do not make any inferences whatsoever as to what has transpired here as I have not seen the tank and pictures don't tell but, a small fraction of whats happened. I hope Vince gets his new tank soon so he can get back up and running again.
I do not make any inferences whatsoever as to what has transpired here as I have not seen the tank and pictures don't tell but, a small fraction of whats happened. I hope Vince gets his new tank soon so he can get back up and running again.
phurst
Richmond Reefer
A new tank has been orderd. I believe it's 5+ weeks out. It's an AGE hybrid. PVC bottom, Starfire glass panels and acrylic eurobrace top.
http://www.acrylicandglassexhibits.com/index.html
http://www.acrylicandglassexhibits.com/index.html
PSU REEFER
New member
What is AGE hybrid?--Is it that it's PVC bottom?
