415 custom in-wall

So, there have been further developments. After the bottom seam failed, we asked a local who works with acrylic to come have a look since we weren't having any luck getting in touch with Sean (it was Sunday, I understand). We got a bunch of people together to move the tank to an appropriate work surface, and the entire bottom panel fell off. the tank was completely empty, and the panel just fell off under it's own weight. This led us to a couple of realizations.

1) Several of the panels are out of square by 1/4" or more. In particular, the bottom panel was 3/8" narrower in the center than the sides.

2) the bonding on many of the seams was poor to say the least. Where the panels separated, the seams are clean and smooth as the day they were manufactured. Solvent by definition "melts" the acrylic during the bonding process. There was NO evidence of this. All the seams separated cleanly and left NO marks or evidence of solvent action.

The tank is, in our opinion unsalavagable at this point. We'll wait to hopefully hear from Sean tomorrow and decide what to do now. I have a hard time believing anything but the construction of the tank is at fault here.
 
Sorry to hear aqbout all your trouble.
Guess it would still be possible to trim the bottom pannel so that it's a perfect square, then adjust the side panels to match and reseal the tank. Don't know if resealing an already bonded and detached area might not be as succesful as a fresh area so check on this before having the tank reasealed and in case not either ask for a new tank from scratch or maybe trim the edges of the acrylic so that the contact surfaces are all new.
I would ask for a complete reseal not just a fix as if the bottom pannel was a bit short in the middle as you say that might have caused and internal bending of the side pannel which could have caused the side seal to be under pressure and fail eventually, which might also be the case of your opposite side seal which by now could have been weakened by the same situation.
After that as mentioned for sure let him check and clear the stand and support of the tank to get another warranty after the fix or the replacement if you go that way.
Hope the situation gets solved quickly for the benefits of both you and the constructor.
Hows your lifestock doing in the holding tanks so far?
 
I think this is a bad tank build. also, did you and sean see theslight gap AFTER the water and rock were removed? of course you did! honestly, with out seeing your stand I don't believe it was the issue. acrylic has some give more so than glass/silicone and with the foam under neath I believe you were just fine.
I built my own 500g glass tank and stand and its still up and running and I'm no tank builder/carpenter. the stand was level enough and the weight of the tank on plywood was enough to level itself out if there was any small difference.
you should be fully refunded and by a new tank somewere else.
 
phurst, has there been any updates since yesterday? I know you were trying to contact the builder... If it were me I'd give it 3 days and then let him know you were taking legal action. That will get him to move I'm sure. ;)
 
Sean replied this morning maintaining that the stand was the cause of the failure, and rescinding his offer of a half-price replacement due to "online slander".

We're looking at several options.
 
If I were the manufacterer I would have taken the loss & replaced the tank immediately regardless of who's fault it was, I'm sure this type of failure doesn't happen often. This is the price you pay when you deal with a small company that doesn't have the financial backing to offer this type of customer service. Looks like this one is going to end up in SCC!!!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14950185#post14950185 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phurst
Hmm, and I happen to work for one of the largest law firms in the country. Funny that :)
Click to expand...


LMAO!!! :lol2:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14950185#post14950185 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phurst
Hmm, and I happen to work for one of the largest law firms in the country. Funny that :)
Click to expand...

I'm sure you'll find a way to include the emotional stress of dealing with the urgent failure of the tnak, risk of loss of your tank inhabitants and furhter risks with increased stay in temp holding tanks, furhter risk due to a non planned move of livestock follwoed by whatever can happen while restocking your new tank... and all those are true IMHO and should be accounted for when constructors build up a solution for their mess up. ITs really weird how they think that a replacement at half the cost or even a full replacement can makeup for whateve one can go through in those circumstances...
 
well, at least vince took the time to copy my response from another rc thread of my review as we just saw this thread

I built this tank(SP aquatics) we did not install this tank, we also did not built the stand, a hobbyist did. I really dont think any of you realize how big of a deal a 20" long gap across a 96" surface is. Its such a big deal that when other fabricators were asked to rebuild a tank, they would not unless the stand was replaced. Why? Because the stand is the reason all this happened.

I have been very professional throughout the entire process of this regardless of the extremely biased finger pointing that ive received in return from the owners friends.

Seriously, how many places would even bother to drive 2 1/2 hours one way to try and fix a tank that wasnt even the manufacturers fault, at no charge. Im sorry we are not in the business of giving hand outs, but when our tanks are at fault, then we cover our tanks no questions about it. This was not the case.

You may resume your flaming and ignore everything ive said like all have up to this point.
 
bchbum189(SP aquatics) not flaming but you still stand by it was the stand and did not address

"So, there have been further developments. After the bottom seam failed, we asked a local who works with acrylic to come have a look since we weren't having any luck getting in touch with Sean (it was Sunday, I understand). We got a bunch of people together to move the tank to an appropriate work surface, and the entire bottom panel fell off. the tank was completely empty, and the panel just fell off under it's own weight. This led us to a couple of realizations.

1) Several of the panels are out of square by 1/4" or more. In particular, the bottom panel was 3/8" narrower in the center than the sides.

2) the bonding on many of the seams was poor to say the least. Where the panels separated, the seams are clean and smooth as the day they were manufactured. Solvent by definition "melts" the acrylic during the bonding process. There was NO evidence of this. All the seams separated cleanly and left NO marks or evidence of solvent action."


What is your response to the flaws?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14954219#post14954219 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bchbum189
well, at least vince took the time to copy my response from another rc thread of my review as we just saw this thread

I built this tank(SP aquatics) we did not install this tank, we also did not built the stand, a hobbyist did. I really dont think any of you realize how big of a deal a 20" long gap across a 96" surface is. Its such a big deal that when other fabricators were asked to rebuild a tank, they would not unless the stand was replaced. Why? Because the stand is the reason all this happened.

I have been very professional throughout the entire process of this regardless of the extremely biased finger pointing that ive received in return from the owners friends.

Seriously, how many places would even bother to drive 2 1/2 hours one way to try and fix a tank that wasnt even the manufacturers fault, at no charge. Im sorry we are not in the business of giving hand outs, but when our tanks are at fault, then we cover our tanks no questions about it. This was not the case.

You may resume your flaming and ignore everything ive said like all have up to this point.
Click to expand...

Well that may work, except now you have another issue no your hand with this tank...

We got a bunch of people together to move the tank to an appropriate work surface, and the entire bottom panel fell off. the tank was completely empty, and the panel just fell off under it's own weight. This led us to a couple of realizations.

1) Several of the panels are out of square by 1/4" or more. In particular, the bottom panel was 3/8" narrower in the center than the sides.

2) the bonding on many of the seams was poor to say the least. Where the panels separated, the seams are clean and smooth as the day they were manufactured. Solvent by definition "melts" the acrylic during the bonding process. There was NO evidence of this. All the seams separated cleanly and left NO marks or evidence of solvent action.
Click to expand...

You see, this is quite interesting. I advise the owner of this 400+ gallon tank take MANY pictures of these seems. Also with comparison to levels and so forth. This way any evidence is clearly visible to anyone not knowing much about tanks.
 
Sean, nobody is bashing you or your work in general, it's just this tank in particular. It's flawed, plain and simple. I don't know if you got a bad batch of weldon, or if the seams weren't clean, or if you didn't feel like trashing a very large piece of acrylic that wasn't cut properly, or something else, but it's flawed.

How many places would drive 2 1/2 hours? I'd hope any of them would. Until you decided it wasn't, the tank was still under warranty. You were obligated to come take a look.

I don't know where you got your information, but no one else has refused to build a replacement tank. We've been in touch with several people in the process of deciding what to do, not no one has even given us a quote or been onsite. No one has demanded the stand be replaced.
 
How many places would drive 2 1/2 hours? I'd hope any of them would. Until you decided it wasn't, the tank was still under warranty. You were obligated to come take a look.
Click to expand...

Many places would (small businesses) to make sure it wasn't their tank that caused the failure. Saves them a LOT of money. Most larger companies, would not waste their time.
 
Ford, Chevy, Toyota, and even some times Porsche make lemons. Whether it be an irregularity in materials, some one who works on the line with their mind else where, or maybe some one is just a little hung over. None the less it happens. When I choose company's for large purchases it's never about the price it's always about the customer service, and the reputation of their warranty. Piece of mind is priceless...
 
I'm am curious to seans reaction to the measurements of his panels also. I built the stand for vince and when installed it was as level as humanly possible with lumber and the tank was placed on 1/2 inch foam. I noticed inconsistancies in the tank when it was installed the most noticeable being when the front wall trim running the length of the tank was installed. The corners being flush there was aprox. 1/4 inch gap bowing in in the center. I was told this was not structural and typical of the build process. Sean was very polite when onsite but seem to be reluctant to look at any measurments besides the one he said voided the warranty. I asked him to look at each panel for square since there was such an obvious flaw(IMO) with the front. At the time,with the tank on the stand, it was difficult to accuratley measure all panels,however when the tank was moved on the stand to enact repairs the 20" long 1/8 inch gap moved with the tank. I also pointed this out and sean continued to stand by his original assesment. Now, I have no doubt in my mind that a wooden structure that had 4000lbs of weight removed and 400 gals of water dumped on it may not be level,even though I haven't had a chance to put a level to it since the tank was removed. However this does not seem like an accurate way to assess installation after the fact especially with the inconsistencies in the tank.
 
When dealing with businesses, especially small businesses, service after the sale is everything. In my opinion, that's where the rubber hits the road. That's where integrity comes out and a business owner shows the love of his product. In this example, in my opinion, the service after the sale was more of a "CYA" effort. The tank should be replaced without question plain and simple. You paid for a rectangle tank that should be cut to spec. I would think that a small gap between the tank and stand is a lot more insignificant than the tank panels being out of square by as much as a 1/4 inch. That tank was doomed to fail.

I am looking at a large tank and I have been debating between acrylic and glass. I was leaning to acrylic with SPA building the tank for me. But I have to be honest in saying that seeing how the after sales support is going with this issue, I've decided to go glass. If I do go acrylic, SPA will not be getting my business. That's not a slam, just the reality of seeing the builder not take responsibility.

Of course, this is just my 2 cents. Nothing more :-)
 
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