5' Skimmer Build in Progress

I think I confused you or myself in the last post. I know 4 would be no good at gaps because it's like water. 16 also flows fairly quickly and might harden in a gap if applied to a horizontal surface, but so far a lot of my work has been attached to the tank and not horizontal. What I am getting at is will 40 fill gaps well, and the gaps I am talking about would be a chip out or seam that is perhaps not true enough for 4 or 16. You suggested I let it harden up a bit, but didn't stipulate which glue to do so with. I assumed you meant the 2-part 40.
 
yep the 40. if its a horizontal seam you dont need to let it firm up. but if its vertical you will want it to start to firm up and then apply it. you will have to keep a real close eye on it. once it starts to react inside the syringe you wont have much time to apply it. mybe 2 mins at the most. but it will stay in place once its applied to the acrylic surface. also if your gluing a new seam make sure and samd both surfaces to ge maximum adheasion of the acrylic with the weldon 40. dont wory the seam will come out crystal clear. the weldon will fill all the small scratches and leave a perfect seam. thats how i glue everything together. sand it then apply the weldon 40 to it. i think you will find the weldon 40 is alot easer to work with than the 4 or the 16. it dont shrink like the solvent cements do. and its easer to make a perfect seam with. i build tanks ,sumps, and skimmers with the stuff. but the down fall is if you get a drip on the surface of the acrylic its there for good. it smears if you try and wipe it off. so be extra careful with the drips. and have a paper towel in the other hand to catch the little drips.
 
I think 40 and 42 are epoxy based glues, not solvent cements. Therefore they thicken as they dry. The only problem I see is that "moving" them after a certain amount of drying or thickineng will cause weakness due to alteration of structure of the dried materail. No different than playing with bondo, grout, caulk or any other hardening substance to long.

From my understanding 16 is basically solvent with acrylic (or other plastic) melted into it. As the solvent evaporates, the disolved material is left behind and acts as glue/filler, as well as being solvent welded to the pieces.

I have also read that you can thickin up 16 byadding acrylic shavings to it.

Bean
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6467277#post6467277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
I think 40 and 42 are epoxy based glues, not solvent cements. Therefore they thicken as they dry. The only problem I see is that "moving" them after a certain amount of drying or thickineng will cause weakness due to alteration of structure of the dried materail. No different than playing with bondo, grout, caulk or any other hardening substance to long.

From my understanding 16 is basically solvent with acrylic (or other plastic) melted into it. As the solvent evaporates, the disolved material is left behind and acts as glue/filler, as well as being solvent welded to the pieces.

I have also read that you can thickin up 16 byadding acrylic shavings to it.

Bean
yes you cant move the project for a hlaf hour to an hour after gluing with weldon 40. but after that its cured enough to move. they recomend 4 hrs before doing any kind of milling or routing. i recomend 24 hrs. jut to be safe. the longer it takes to build the better it will be.
as for thickening up 16. yes add acrylic shaving to it. but make sure there is no dust in the shavings. they will show up in the seam.
 
It is starting to get dialed in. I have been having a tough time dialing in the perfect height of water.

The difficulty comes from the target volume of water. Since I am determined to not over saturate the water/air mix, I have to get the water height perfect. I have had difficulty getting the foam up the riser tube because of this. However, I am now starting to get a stiff head of foam going.

I was considering a riser tube shortening, but I may wait and see.

Dale
 
Not much new, but I have been watching Spazz's new NW. It has better bubble characteristics than my airstones give. Now I have bubble envy.

I am torn on my skimmer. Do I keep fighting to dial it in, or redo the top? The only real way to improve my skimmer will be to make a new foam riser. In order to do that, I have to cement a flange onto my pipe. That is pretty permanent. I have the old skimmer neck and cup (it broke off of the mixing body-reef devil). I can make a tapered top similiar to the kind Spazz makes. I would not be able to make the locking flange the way he does though. I would just cement the neck to the cone. i could bolt the cone to a standard flange on the body. I already have a plan for the forms needed to get it done.

What to do?.....
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6534891#post6534891 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tinygiants
What to do?.....
well is your tank being skimmed to zero nitrates? or is it showing signs that it needs better skimming? if its doing ok for now, i would hang on for a little while. dont be too hasty in you your decisions. im sure there will be an answer in the very near future to you delema. unless your tank is suffering. then its time to make a decision. think four times and do it once is a good moto for this hobby.
 
My Nitrate kit starts at 10. I am no where near that color.
0 Nitrite
0 Ammonia
0 Phophate

So that part is good. I just want more skimmate, with fewer floods. ( I have my drain container set inside the sump just incase of that.

Dale
 
87029new-cup.jpg


Well I got tired of it not performing like I wanted. So I decided to use the riser neck from my old skimmer. I did not think it would fit in the fernco (rubber coupler) , but it did nicely. So it is in and I can now see at a glance what my water level is. To those that told me I should be able to see, you were right. Seeing does make it easier to get in the ball park. I still may make a acrylic cone and attach the riser to it, but at least I can try this with no destruction. The biggest thing is the narrower neck. I will keep this post updated as to the results of the change.

Dale
 
i dont know yet. i will take a picture tomorrow when im finished making it into a skimmer. the cone is on it but i have to finnish the cup assembly and add the plumbing to it.
 
Well, the bubbles in the neck are large. Some are very large. This part of the skimmer is kind of a mystery to me.

I watched the skimmer operate. There is not a steady flow of stiff foam out of the top. From what I understand, that is not normal. What I do see is a lot of bubbles breaking and combining in the neck section. As this happens a dense foam is produced. This foam head builds and surges until it reaches the narrow part of the skimmer neck. Here it clings to the wall until the air being released below it blows it up and over the narrow tube and into the cup. At this point the column of foam drops down and the cycle repeats.

It has only been running for a few hours, now that I have it set and tuned. It is sending a nice slug of stiff light brown foam into the cup about every 5-6 minutes. I am expecting that the skimmer collection cup will be a nice deep tea color by morning. I know that the lid already has a nice digusting film of goo on it. I am gald to have that gunk out of my tank.

Maybe tomorrow I will have a nice picture worthy bucket of skimmate goo. (I have never understood why everyone wants to see the skimmate.)

Dale
 
Dale, that sounds pretty similar to what happened in my tall 4" skimmer. Finer bubbles towards the base of the riser neck morphed into large bubbles in the middle, with a fine and stiff foam at the very top. The stiff foam would get pushed up in surges.

If stiff foam was dropping over into the collection cup and persisting there for many minutes like the top on a cup of Capuccino, that was "dry" foam, in my book. If it dropped over and quickly broke up into fluid, that was "wet". I tuned mine dry to reduce the risk of overflows. The downside of running dry is black gunk tends to block out the visibility of the riser tube fairly quickly because a lot of fractionation products stick there rather than making it out into the cup.
 
Thanks Howard.

I have toyed with the idea of a rebuild using acrylic. I have toyed with the idea of trying the Dart NW that Spazz is working on. But now that I seem to be getting good skimmate, the urgency is gone. I am hopefull that I can work on a decent collection container next.

Dale
 
The compounds that tend to stick to the interfaces are not necessarily the same compounds that create a stable foam. I wouldn't worry about the large bubbles in the riser section. This is not the region where the bubble size is critical. You just want to collapse the foam asap into the collection cup. This will allow for more foam to take its place. One of my thoughts throughout all of this is that one should skim as 'wet' as possible, without losing an unreasonable amount of fluid over time. The skimmate will be less concentrated, but there ought to be more total junk in there. We want the skimmer to remove as much as possible, right (barring overskimming debates)? Raise the skimmer riser, and it has more time to evaporate water and concentrate surfactants at the interface. This will lead to a more stable, dry foam, but it only needs to be stable to the point where it is over the spillover ridge (point of no return).

The region right above where the air/water ratio increases dramatically is different than both the main skimmer body and the foam region. Here, the water is rapidly draining via gravity. You'd waste a lot of water by spilling at this point of course. After that, I'd say good to go. The wet-to-dry foam transition is usually characterized by a wall thickness of 10-100 microns. At a certain point, the water is a very small percentage of the total volume of the foam. This foam is called a persistent or residual foam, and is more or less indefinitely stable. I'd guess that this might be a designation for the smaller bubbles at the very top of the riser you noticed. They would collapse, of course, when rehydrated in the collection cup. Just some tidbits.

All in all, I think you should wait a few days before trying to tweak things around. Let it become more consistent. I'll be jumping into your situation with the air slimmer in a few weeks time, hopefully.

Cheers,
G1
 
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