5' X 5' Cube - 500 Gallon system

[ruiny]

I would say go with the tunze streams over the big closed loop pumps. At 5 feet depth the view of the streams should be easy to hide. And the power difference between the options is a lot. And though streams seem costly, by the time you buy 2 pumps + 2 4 ways + all the plumbing the streams are not really that much more. plus the streams are much more versitile, move to new location, wave settings, adjustable etc.
just my thoughts.

 

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6945739#post6945739 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ruiny
I would say go with the tunze streams over the big closed loop pumps. At 5 feet depth the view of the streams should be easy to hide. And the power difference between the options is a lot. And though streams seem costly, by the time you buy 2 pumps + 2 4 ways + all the plumbing the streams are not really that much more. plus the streams are much more versitile, move to new location, wave settings, adjustable etc.
just my thoughts.

I agree 110%...

 

[maxxII]

That was my thinking too...

I have a 58 gallon tank with an Iwaki MD55RLT pushing 1000 gph through and OM 4 way unit......I'm happy with my closed loop set up for the most part...but my next tank will have Streams and/or the Vortech Pump in it. Simply because of the flexibility and redundancy a system like that provides.

Pro's:
Flexible and easily adjustable.
Redundancy in the respect that if one pump goes down or needs maintenance, the rest of the system still carries on like normal, the entire system doesnt come to a halt while waiting for replacements or maintenance, (Soaking in vineager etc).
Less power used. This becomes wildly important if you are ever in a power shortage type situation....less energy used means less draw on whatever back up power source you are using....think about it. Have you priced generators lately?

Con's
Not the most aesthetically pleasing choice for water movement
Up front cost not cheap
adds some heat to the water, (could be bonus in cold weather power outtages)

Its your tank, please take my thoughts as opinions only and not gospel, but I've learned a few things since setting up my system and I will be doing thigs differently next time around.

Nick

 

[Bebo77]

on a tank that size you wont see the Tunze's... i have 2 6200's on my 300 gallon tank.. i hid them in the rock work...

As far as power goes get redragons.. they will end up being cheaper in the long run. 200+ watts an hours really adds up fast.(i have 2 panworlds i am replacing with 1 red dragon.) less power and noise count me in...

I also have 2 skimmers on my tank.. a Deltec and a Barr.. I never have any problems running 2. If you are going that size(500)gallons i would get a BIG Deltec...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=734279

I assume that this tank is not going to be built any time soon.. you will have to re-enforce your floor.. be sure to plumb into the house drain and water. If i was going that big i would get good equipment to begin with.. you might as well go broke the first time around.

 

[Wade2185]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6945739#post6945739 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ruiny
I would say go with the tunze streams over the big closed loop pumps. At 5 feet depth the view of the streams should be easy to hide. And the power difference between the options is a lot. And though streams seem costly, by the time you buy 2 pumps + 2 4 ways + all the plumbing the streams are not really that much more. plus the streams are much more versitile, move to new location, wave settings, adjustable etc.
just my thoughts.

Point well taken. After researching pumps and plumbing I agree with you. I have 3 streams now. I have 1 - 6060 (1600 GPH) and 2 - 6080 (2250 GPH). Do you think these 3 will be enough?

 

[Wade2185]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6949745#post6949745 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bebo77
on a tank that size you wont see the Tunze's... i have 2 6200's on my 300 gallon tank.. i hid them in the rock work...

As far as power goes get redragons.. they will end up being cheaper in the long run. 200+ watts an hours really adds up fast.(i have 2 panworlds i am replacing with 1 red dragon.) less power and noise count me in...

I also have 2 skimmers on my tank.. a Deltec and a Barr.. I never have any problems running 2. If you are going that size(500)gallons i would get a BIG Deltec...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=734279

I assume that this tank is not going to be built any time soon.. you will have to re-enforce your floor.. be sure to plumb into the house drain and water. If i was going that big i would get good equipment to begin with.. you might as well go broke the first time around.

Thanks for the advice. I will take a closer look at the RD pumps. The price is just a little intimidating.

What model of Barr skimmer are you running? I was looking at the Barr Aquatics web site this weekend. They look like very good skimmers. I was thinking about the SK5220. The other route I have looked at is to use my existing ASM G4 and add an additional ASM G5. The whole skimmer thing still has me stumped.

As far as the floor goes this tank is going in my basement on a concrete floor. I should not have to do any re-enforcing, etc.

 

[cward]

"The price is just a little intimidating"

That's an understatement. It would be easy enough to see how many years it would take you to recoup your money back.

It sounds like it's going to be a great tank and I'm looking forward to seeing it finished. Just make sure you plan wisely up front and take everyone's opinions with a grain of salt, because some people give advice without actually having a tank set up

 

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6949745#post6949745 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bebo77
As far as power goes get redragons.. they will end up being cheaper in the long run. 200+ watts an hours really adds up fast.(i have 2 panworlds i am replacing with 1 red dragon.) less power and noise count me in...

Bebo77, what is the price per KWH in CA where you live ??

 

[Wade2185]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6953107#post6953107 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by asnatlas
Bebo77, what is the price per KWH in CA where you live ??

FYI - the KWH charge for me in Utah is $.12

 

[Wade2185]

I think that I am going to start out by using my AMP master 3600 for my return. With the estimated head pressure I am thinking that this pump with return about 2700 GPH. Between this pump and the 3 streams will I have enough flow?

 

[Bebo77]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6953107#post6953107 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by asnatlas
Bebo77, what is the price per KWH in CA where you live ??

i pay .68 per kwh.... you guys have it made!!!

i have the Barr sk 1220

lucky man no concrete work.. i had to tear my floor apart to get my tank in....

 

[ruiny]

Point well taken. After researching pumps and plumbing I agree with you. I have 3 streams now. I have 1 - 6060 (1600 GPH) and 2 - 6080 (2250 GPH). Do you think these 3 will be enough?

Use the streams you have now and if you need more you can easily add them, another advantage with streams over the CL.

 

[cward]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6956907#post6956907 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bebo77
i pay .68 per kwh.... you guys have it made!!!

:eek1: Are you kidding me???
Holly cow, I only pay .09 per kwh here in Ohio. Last month my bill was $221 and I used 2480 kwh. My tank uses aprox. 1500 kwh per month, so that would be $120.

 

[cward]

Here is some info for anyone looking to use a Red Dragon for efficiency.

Red Dragon 12 M3/ 170W according to kris4647, and it cost's $970.
The Sequence Hammerhead/ 350W, and it cost's $300.

The RD pump would cost me $11.17 to run per month using the .09 per kwh rate. The Hammerhead would cost me $23.00 per month.
To make up the price difference of the pumps ($670) it would take me 4 years and 8 months ($11.83 per month), and that's just to break even.
For you guy's who pay .12 per kwh it would only take you 3 years and 7 months to break even.
Not to mention the fact that the Hammerhead would kick the snot out of the RD:lol:

Bebo77- The average cost of electric in California as of Nov. 2005 is .123 per kwh for residential.
The guy's on the northern east coast have it worse with an average cost of .13 to .14+ per kwh, and people in Hawaii have it for worse with an average cost of .23 per kwh.

 

[kris4647]

Whoa.....

Hold up with the RD bashing, the intangibles here are silence and little or no heat transfer. No heat transfer=less need for chiller run time which in a large system sucks more power than anything else short of lights. No noise= I can hear my TV. I'm old school over here; everything in a stand and not a fish room . I had a Hammerhead on the same tank and couldnt handle the noise.

An RD12 will outflow a Dart so I dont know about the pants thing either , maybe kick the shorts off of...........

I do however unerstand your point on price. But all the German stuff is ridiculous. The Dragons are hand made. Just depends on your budget and needs. I saved for two years for the parts for my 400g so I could have all the cool toys and for me it was worth it.

Getting back to the point here. Your ampmaster is a good option, although their power consumption isnt as billed either. My 3k pulled around 190 watts.

A middle of the road option may be the Tunze master circulation pumps.

As for skimmers I wouldnt go with anything but a needlewheel recirc. Its not a fad, they are truly the best option out there for efficiency and performance.

Best of Luck

Kris

 

[cward]

I'm not bashing the RD pump because I would love to have one. My point was to show how long it would take to recoup the extra money spent on efficiency. I do understand your point about the heat transfer, but I have no experience with the RD pump to see how much heat the put out.
I was comparing the Hammerhead to the RD12, and yes, the Hammerhead would "kick the snot out of the RD".

 

[Wade2185]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6959272#post6959272 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kris4647

Getting back to the point here. Your ampmaster is a good option, although their power consumption isnt as billed either. My 3k pulled around 190 watts.

A middle of the road option may be the Tunze master circulation pumps.

As for skimmers I wouldnt go with anything but a needlewheel recirc. Its not a fad, they are truly te best option out there for efficiency and performance.

Best of Luck

Kris

Thanks for the advice Kris. I am going to get started with my Ampmaster and then maybe change it out in the future. I am not worried at all about noise because I have the luxury of being able to build this into a wall and all of the pumps, sump, etc will be in there own "fishroom".

Do you have a recommendation for a good needlewheel recirc skimmer for about 600 gallons?

 

[kris4647]

I was comparing the Hammerhead to the RD12, and yes, the Hammerhead would "kick the snot out of the RD".

I've owned both pumps in the same application and I don't agree with the snot either . The flow from all of my RD's was surprising even in light of their flow "looking" output curve. Nuff said on that.


Well Wade you can guess which skimmer I run . On a more slightly more reasonable note I would suggest Euroreef 500 recirc or an H&S 200 series or a Deltec Ap702.

The price points are tough though, even for the Euroreef. Although the Barr model you are looking at is $850 plus a $250 or so pump to run it puts you in the same $1000 or + area.

Your ASM idea isnt too bad really, I hear good things about them from everyone.

Its just where you want to go with your setup. As I mentioned I saved for a long time and picked parts up as I went. Only downside to this is the parts you pick up are burning warranty as they wait. My BK skimmer was purchased used over a year ago and it was just put on line last month :eek1:. I wouldnt go cheap on the skimmer, its just too important IMO.

 

[alien9168]

Been seeing a lot of big cube tanks latley, and I like it!

I hope this project is as awsome as some of the nano cube tanks (not the brand---but actually cubed tanks ) that I have seen!

-good luck

-alien

 

[Wade2185]

Well I have made up my mind and have started my tank. I changed my tank size a little. It is now 72" X 60" X 28". I made it one foot longer so that I could have plenty of room for my aquascaping plan. I orderd an ASM G5 skimmer and plan on running this with my current G4 skimmer. I am going to start by using my existing AMPmaster 3600 for my return and run it through and OM 4 way unit. I will also be using 2 Tunze 6080s and 1 Tunze 6060.

I started finishing the fish room in the basement today. I am now wondering how I want to vent the fish room. That is my next project at this point. Anyone have any suggestions? Dehumidifier? Air exchange unit?