55 gal setup help

[NyC ReeF 55]

Hey everyone! post #1 for me. I have been keeping freshwater fish for a few years now and I am going to start up my first saltwater tank. I have been doing as much reasearch as possible and continue to do so. I could use some help with a couple basic set-up questions though. I'm sure somewhere this was all answered but I guess it can't hurt to ask, right?

I want to do a FOWLR tank setup. Eventually I would like to incorporate corals but I know that will be a challange & I will probably need some better equipment (especially lighting). If it turns out not to be possible I will be happy with a FOWLR.

I am going to start off with 3 steps to help ease the inital cost. This means it will take longer to even get water into my tank but the $ is better spread out in the begining.

Step 1: Purchased 55gal tank w/stand, hood & standard lighting. I also have a heater, hydrometer, and test kit.

Step 2: I will purchase the filter equipment and a few less expensive items (thermometer, algae scraper, etc...)

Step 3: I will purchase the live rock, live sand, and the salt mix.

After step 3 I plan to do the following: Add the live rock to an empty tank to get the desired aquascape. Add the sand (prob. going with a 4" bed). Add the pre-mixed salt water. It is to my understanding that the live rock helps with the tank cycliing and therefore will be okay to add with the new saltwater I will put in (correct?).

Here are the questions I have:

1. I am up in the air about the filtration nescessary and am stuck between a few options (I'm sure they're more I am unaware of)

Use only the live rock & protein skimmer as filtration
Use a sump & a protein skimmer
Use a bio-wheel powerfilter & canister filter (or sump)
The question here is which option is the best (incl. something I haven't mentioned) and which if any should I NOT do?

2. This may be stupid but I know there needs to be a constant flow of water or "wavemaking". Are powerheads the main piece of equipment to use for this or are the other ways to achive the desired level of water movement? Do I need a powerhead if I do not have any corals?

3. I do not plan on adding any fish for a while so I don't have any questions on livestock at this point. My final question (for now ) is about "helpers". I do not know much about what to get in terms of natural tank cleaners (hermit crabs ring a bell?). What types can / should I add and when is it best to add them? Are they considered livestock as well and not be added until after the tank has cycled?

I want to thank anyone / everyone in advance for any help you may be able to give. I have seen many scenarios similar to this discussed but I wanted to get some help based on my personal plan. I know details are important so I tried to include most of what I think is important for the beginning stages of this. If I have left anything out that will make answering any of this easier please reply and I will include those details as well.

 

[tims28gnano]

[welcome]

ok NYC, here is my 2 cents. you are going in the right direction. first thing i noticed, people say NO to the canister filter.

there is no need to think about a CUC (clean up crew) yet. you need to give the tank a few weeks to cycle and then let a little algea grow. then get the CUC

don't skimp on salt mix, get a few extra heaters, and an extra powerhead (1 each for mixing salt water) i have found that my metal halide lights keep my temp at 79 with the help of 1 heater, then at night when i am running only led lights and the heat is lower in the house, the one heater is not enough to keep the tank at 79 so i have to add another heater.

buy EXTRA salt mix for an emergency

i say - - - forget FOWLR, you will want to start putting frags in the tank when you have it up and running!! IMO

sorry if my thoughts are sort of random.

 

[Chris&Mel]

I started with a canister and there is nothing i regret more.......do your self a favor and do a sump right off the hop (its realy hard to get a sump into your stand when the tank is up and running) I'd bet that other people would second this as well

 

[aquariumkeeper1]

Just my .2 I am currently using a Marineland C-360 canister filter on my 55 reef, and I really havn't had any problems with it. This is just my experience though.

P.S. The tank is about 2 yrs old.

 

[mmedeiros2]

Use 2 100 watt heaters instead of one 200 watt. If one gets stuck
on it won't overheat your tank as quick as a 200 w getting stuck on. Also if one fails to not turn on, you will still have one to keep the water warm. If you put them in the tank, you we get more even heat.

 

[Chris&Mel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14265716#post14265716 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aquariumkeeper1
Just my .2 I am currently using a Marineland C-360 canister filter on my 55 reef, and I really havn't had any problems with it. This is just my experience though.

P.S. The tank is about 2 yrs old.

You haven't had any problem's with it?
Thats the same model I had, could not make the thing stop blowing micro bubbles, the manufacturer sent me a new one....and it did the same thing. They sent me one of there sumps today instead. So now I have 2 of them and a sump.. Trying to figure out how to get the sump in the stand wile the tank is running.

 

[cvincenti]

Go for the sump and dust the cabbisters.

 

[cvincenti]

Go for the sump and dust the cannisters.

 

[NyC ReeF 55]

Thanks for the replies. Okay, I was leaning towards the sump myself, so I think that's what I will go with. Will that be enough by itself?
Also, I have heard confilcting reports on protein skimmers from "it's the most important thing you can buy" to "I had my tank running for a year and a 1/2 before I added one". Thoughts?

Is it better to purchase a sump or is it easy enough to DIY? Also I have a 10 gal unused tank, can I make a sump out of this or is it too small?

Tims, thanks for the info. I am defintely planning on doing the LR before any fish as I definitely want the tank to cycle for a while, but I was just stating that FOWLR is my main goal. I was planning on buying a lot of salt mix as I understand it is nescessary to have for water changes and emergencies. Thanks for the input.

 

[aquariumkeeper1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14265813#post14265813 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Chris&Mel
You haven't had any problem's with it?
Thats the same model I had, could not make the thing stop blowing micro bubbles, the manufacturer sent me a new one....and it did the same thing. They sent me one of there sumps today instead. So now I have 2 of them and a sump.. Trying to figure out how to get the sump in the stand wile the tank is running.

I guess I got lucky. No, i've never had a problem with it. My only thing is I wish it wasn't so darn heavy when it's filled with water!

On the whole skimmer thing, I think it really depends. I'll admit i've got a CRAPPY skimmer. I really wonder sometimes if I should just take it out. Once I unplugged it for some maintence work and forgot to plug it back in for like 3 months, and nothing in my tank changed. BUT, i've got a deep sand bed, lots of LR, and a large filter (for up to 100 gallons, tank is 55 gallons) and good circulation. My tank turnover rate is a little over 21. I also have a light bioload.

To me, the whole skimmer issue depends on how good of filteration and circulation you have, as well as how heavy of a bioload you have. BUT, i'm not an expert. That's just my .2.

 

[svynx]

I'd say that the 10 gal is to small for a sump. I would use a 20 gallon long for that. You can use the 10 gallon as a QT or hospital tank later on when you are looking at livestock.
The steps that you pointed out will work. My suggestions:
Don't skimp out on price the first time around. For example, your lights. Standard lights on a FOWLR are usually (from what I have seen) are power compacts. You state that corals might be in your future. I know that they are, as do everyone else on here. Once they are in your mind, it's almost certain they you will have them. Instead of buying a light now, and then again later, just go with a good one now. I run a Nova Extreem Pro on my 55 and I'm keeping LPS, and some SPS.
My opinion of skimmers: I like them. I think that they serve a great purpose.
One point on your tank. If you can get a drilled one, do it. I had an overflow box for a while when I first started out and even though it worked, I didn't trust it. Now that I have a drilled tank, I don't worry about flooding.
Hope that helps. Welcome to a very expensive, but very gratifying hobby. It all pays off in the end when you have your own little piece of the ocean.

 

[NyC ReeF 55]

I am also planning on going with a DSB. Can you further explan "turnover rate" including what makes this happen(equipment) and how much is nescessary? I could also use a little more info on powerheads and what exactly to go for(sorry but not sure of technical terms for powerheads).

 

[Sk8r]

If you have a sump, one chamber is devoted to the 'return pump' and maybe the skimmer pump. The return pump shoots water from the sump back up to your tank. Major aeration happens in the first chamber of the sump as water downfalls from the tank (gravity driven). More aeration happens in the skimming process (a needle-jet of water driven into a small container of water, causing amino acids to froth up for removal). If you are keeping fish, that aeration is very very helpful.

One other point: corals aren't that hard at all if you have the right lighting. And keeping fish can be easier if you have corals. I can take one look at my tank and 'read' the condition of the water by the behavior of the corals. If they're happy and well-extended, the fish are safe and well-off. If they should ever close up, I'd be testing that water fast. Fish unfortunately don't act unhappy until they're in serious trouble.

Soft corals don't require high light as a rule. Stony corals mostly do. So you could do some corals with lesser lights.

The catch is, quite a few fish eat corals. So if you ultimately want corals, plan your fish population accordingly.

 

[NyC ReeF 55]

Interesting note on the corals. I will have to look into this further, but my main concern right now is getting the correct filter setup and then going for the LR, sand & salt mix.
As far as the sump goes, it sounds like it's best to just purchase one that is already set-up.
Has anyone found purchasing LR online is a better option than at the LFS? I have seen some prices at $7-$9 a lb. A friend of mine used to work in a pet store and put me in contact with the people he knows there who said they could go as low as $5 a lb if I'm buying 50+ lbs (which is what I need). Is that a good deal or has anyone found better online? The shipping looks to be the worst part of some of the websites I found, but the variety (and possibly quality) of rock seems to be better.

 

[NyC ReeF 55]

I may have been mistaken about my filter thoughts. I have also been looking at a wet/dry filter setup. I got this a little confused with a sump. Here are the specifications of the unit I am looking at. Would this be better/worse than a regular sump? the same thing? Possibly not a good idea at all? Thanks so much....

Recommended tank size: Up to 60gal
Recommended flow rate: 360gph
Media Capacity: 2gal
Dimensions (L x W x H): 16" x 8" x 12"
Inlet/Outlet (Bulkhead): 0.75"/None
Internal Sump (L x W x H): 7.5" x 7.25" x 12.0"

 

[NyC ReeF 55]

The previous mentioned setup also includes:

CS50 overflow , hose kit, Rio+ 1700UL return powerhead and IF75 inflow kit.

If this setup is practical for my tank is this all I would need to complete my "filter package"? I know a protein skimmer is a possible addition, but other than that is the equipment enough?

 

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

The best deal I've found on LR is from http://www.marcorocks.com/ Fiji for $2.69lb!! That's what I'm buying.

 

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14270352#post14270352 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NyC ReeF 55
I may have been mistaken about my filter thoughts. I have also been looking at a wet/dry filter setup. I got this a little confused with a sump. Here are the specifications of the unit I am looking at. Would this be better/worse than a regular sump? the same thing? Possibly not a good idea at all? Thanks so much....

Recommended tank size: Up to 60gal
Recommended flow rate: 360gph
Media Capacity: 2gal
Dimensions (L x W x H): 16" x 8" x 12"
Inlet/Outlet (Bulkhead): 0.75"/None
Internal Sump (L x W x H): 7.5" x 7.25" x 12.0"

I'm new at all this, but from what I've researched, you need 10GPH flow per every 1 gallon of tank water. You can do less , but read that this really makes things flourish and do well.

 

[NyC ReeF 55]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14270532#post14270532 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LITHIUMSTATIC
I'm new at all this, but from what I've researched, you need 10GPH flow per every 1 gallon of tank water. You can do less , but read that this really makes things flourish and do well.

So based on that I would need at least 550gph for a 55gal tank?

 

[Sk8r]

Wet/dry and filters ALL hold detritus away from your sand and rock, which is NOT a good idea. Your sand and rock in a cycled marine tank contain layered bacteria that, with the help of bristleworms, a common hitchhiker, break down the detritus and turn it into harmless nitrogen gas. My tank, a 54g reef, has 0 nitrate. People who have filters rarely get very low. Some people have and do run reefs with a cannister, but their attention to that filter is close and constant. Work, in other words.

A proper sump has: no filter: a downflow chamber, a skimmer chamber (I mounted my skimmer above the sump so I could put a refugium (planted section) in; then a heater chamber (very small) and a return pump chamber. It is an empty box with high and low partitions, first 3 mounted to the bottom, the post-heater one mounted to the top, so water has to S curve between the middle chamber (which may contain living things) and the return pump. This is supposed to keep snails out of your pump. It sometimes doesn't.

you need 1-2 lb rock per gallon of display, and 1 lb aragonite sand (I recommend medium) per gallon.