600 gal display/900+ gal build thread in the Chicago 'burbs.
- Thread starter wmilas
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I just took out the spreadsheet and did the math. If we take the reeflo out of the picture and compare the skimming power of the Volcano 1875 to the ETSS, you get the model 2000 XR. The ETSS is slightly taller, but less of a footprint. If you factor in energy cost at 13.5 cents per KwH it takes the volcano about 7.8 years to pay for itself. If you use 17 cents per KwH it takes about6.2 years. This does not factor in the time value of the money on the difference in the cost so the actual yearly will be a little longer.
Frankly, I'm surprised. This is a pretty good argument to use the ETSS skimmer as its smaller in footprint, initially cheaper, and the time to repay itself is so far out that the residual values of both skimmers at that time will probably both be close to each other. I know downdraft skimmers are old school but we are comparing equally sized skimmers here throughput wise so I'm not sure if one can argue that the Volcano skims better. Yes its more efficient but again, the time it takes to pay for itself is pretty far out there.
Any comments?
Frankly, I'm surprised. This is a pretty good argument to use the ETSS skimmer as its smaller in footprint, initially cheaper, and the time to repay itself is so far out that the residual values of both skimmers at that time will probably both be close to each other. I know downdraft skimmers are old school but we are comparing equally sized skimmers here throughput wise so I'm not sure if one can argue that the Volcano skims better. Yes its more efficient but again, the time it takes to pay for itself is pretty far out there.
Any comments?
jknecht
Member
I know that foot print is a killer for you. But I would have to agree with Elliott. I was going to say take a look at the Bubble Kings but when you get to the 400 and 500 models there foot print isn't that much smaller. The two Orca's may be the way to go. But now you're running two Dart's. Decisions, Decisions...
So, I'm still torn on skimmer choice. I took a look at the MRC 6R (recirculating dual beckett) but the more I read up on it, the more I'm worried that it needs to constantly be adjusted, and the becketts get gunked up fairly fast and need to be cleaned.
The other option id s AquaC Remora 2000. Its spray nozzle is supposed to be more robust than a beckett. When I tank this big I don't want to be in the position where I'm constantly fiddling with the skimmer. When I clean the cup and neck, I want to pop it back on and walk away.
The problem is I'm still torn between the longer dwell times of a needle wheel recirc and the raw water processing of a spray type unit. Thats really what it boils down to. To process as much water in a needle wheel you need something the size of a volcano which is serious $$$ and not that much less energy when you figure in the added energy draw of the air pump.
I have no doubt that the Volcano is the best choice assuming that I'll actually use all that skimming power.
At the end of the day I'm back to where I started. Either I start with a reeflo and add another when the stocking gets large, or I commit to the Volcano and gut out the upfront cost. I can afford the Volcano, its just that I don't want to buy something I truly don't need. Some people are in the hobby for the equipment. While putting it all together does bring some joy, in the end the fish are what matter, and I'm struggling to justify the Volcano. If it was 2 grand more than its current price it'd be out just like the Bubblekings are.
I wonder what the true skimming power of a Reeflo 250 actually is. Maybe I'm blowing this all out of proportion and a single Reeflo would suffice?
The other option id s AquaC Remora 2000. Its spray nozzle is supposed to be more robust than a beckett. When I tank this big I don't want to be in the position where I'm constantly fiddling with the skimmer. When I clean the cup and neck, I want to pop it back on and walk away.
The problem is I'm still torn between the longer dwell times of a needle wheel recirc and the raw water processing of a spray type unit. Thats really what it boils down to. To process as much water in a needle wheel you need something the size of a volcano which is serious $$$ and not that much less energy when you figure in the added energy draw of the air pump.
I have no doubt that the Volcano is the best choice assuming that I'll actually use all that skimming power.
At the end of the day I'm back to where I started. Either I start with a reeflo and add another when the stocking gets large, or I commit to the Volcano and gut out the upfront cost. I can afford the Volcano, its just that I don't want to buy something I truly don't need. Some people are in the hobby for the equipment. While putting it all together does bring some joy, in the end the fish are what matter, and I'm struggling to justify the Volcano. If it was 2 grand more than its current price it'd be out just like the Bubblekings are.
I wonder what the true skimming power of a Reeflo 250 actually is. Maybe I'm blowing this all out of proportion and a single Reeflo would suffice?
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
when you feed a skimmer from overflows, does the skimmer still need a feed pump, or does it only need a pump for recirculation on the deltecs?
erics3000
Active member
I am hooking up a MRC MR4 with dual beckets. I heard the same thing about the becketts...but got a good deal on a used one. I am going to have a t from my over flow running to the pump that feeds the skimmer. Sounds like you have a tough decision. I figured I would wait and get my tank up nad then decide on a skimmer. 6 months later and finaly moving forward. The only bad thing about doing it that way is i had to wait to finish my plumbing in the sump room.
Ryan on this type of skimmer you need a high pressure pump so from the overflows it does go to the pump then the skimmer. I need to get off RC and finish hooking it up. they do have the recirc mod for the becketts but I don't have enough info on that..
Ryan on this type of skimmer you need a high pressure pump so from the overflows it does go to the pump then the skimmer. I need to get off RC and finish hooking it up. they do have the recirc mod for the becketts but I don't have enough info on that..
cbui2
Premium Member
my deltec is external recirculating w/4 ehiem 1260 custom needle wheel. no feed pump is needed as the overflows are more then enough, just need to dial your pumps to get the correct flow going through it, and AP1004 can handle up to 800gph. i have a little more going to it as the bubbles break few inches below the neck. anytime you can gravity feed, use it so it will be one less pump needed and less heat.
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
my skimmer is an ETSS 800 XR downdraft, and I just bought an Iwaki 55 pump.
I didn't plan or want to use this skimmer, but my original plan fell through and I'm getting this one instead (for free). Sucky part is the only place in my sump where I can put bulkheads is the return section... less than ideal.
Can the iwaki 55 be fed from overflows? I have two 1.5" drains that merge into a 2" into the sump. Return pump is a Barracuda.
never heard of running a pump from overflows before... how does it work? is the air in the line not an issue???
I didn't plan or want to use this skimmer, but my original plan fell through and I'm getting this one instead (for free). Sucky part is the only place in my sump where I can put bulkheads is the return section... less than ideal.
Can the iwaki 55 be fed from overflows? I have two 1.5" drains that merge into a 2" into the sump. Return pump is a Barracuda.
never heard of running a pump from overflows before... how does it work? is the air in the line not an issue???
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
sorry guys its late didn't realize I was sidetracking this so much 
I'm taking that elsewhere..... its just that you guys say the most interesting things and it piques my curiosity so much
I'm taking that elsewhere..... its just that you guys say the most interesting things and it piques my curiosity so much
erics3000
Active member
So run 2 overflow pipes to the pump with ball valves and T's to the sump. If i was to run it right from the overflow to the pump for the skimmer and the skimmer pump quit wouldn't the water overflow form the tank, or would it flow through the pump just not under pressure?
Ohhh ....Is this right???
Sorry for the hi jack..
Ohhh ....Is this right???
Sorry for the hi jack..
Ryan, I read the thread where you had your tank build problem and had to take the ETSS. Sorry about that 
I've looked at how to correctly plumb and ETSS and MRC and an MRC recirc.
ETSS: Have the overflows feed directly to your sump. Have your ETSS pull water out of the sump directly where the overflows dump. If you feed the ETSS directly you will have issues with water bubbles in the water column and you will have to T off and force water into the tank past the ETSS. What I mean is you have to have a little mini "sump" in your piping to bubble off the air and make sure that the water being pushed to the ETSS pump is bubble free and at a greater rate than what the pump ETSS pump can take. IMHO its easier to just dump to the sump and suck from right there.
The same plumbing idea for the MRC.
The MRC recirc is different. It has an inlet for raw water to be dumped to it. Its pumps pull water out of the bottom of the box just like a recirc needlewheel does and around it goes.
The part thats killing me about the recirc MRC is all that gunk eventually clogs the injectors. I hear they have to be cleaned at least once a month. On top of that every time you clean the cup and riser, you have to turn the air know completely off, then open it back up to get the right bubble rise. It sounds time intensive. Plus in the back of my head i'm still wondering if the longer dwell times of the needlewheels work better.
I've looked at how to correctly plumb and ETSS and MRC and an MRC recirc.
ETSS: Have the overflows feed directly to your sump. Have your ETSS pull water out of the sump directly where the overflows dump. If you feed the ETSS directly you will have issues with water bubbles in the water column and you will have to T off and force water into the tank past the ETSS. What I mean is you have to have a little mini "sump" in your piping to bubble off the air and make sure that the water being pushed to the ETSS pump is bubble free and at a greater rate than what the pump ETSS pump can take. IMHO its easier to just dump to the sump and suck from right there.
The same plumbing idea for the MRC.
The MRC recirc is different. It has an inlet for raw water to be dumped to it. Its pumps pull water out of the bottom of the box just like a recirc needlewheel does and around it goes.
The part thats killing me about the recirc MRC is all that gunk eventually clogs the injectors. I hear they have to be cleaned at least once a month. On top of that every time you clean the cup and riser, you have to turn the air know completely off, then open it back up to get the right bubble rise. It sounds time intensive. Plus in the back of my head i'm still wondering if the longer dwell times of the needlewheels work better.
jknecht
Member
Since your considering the Reeflo 250 you may want to consider the Baby Volcano, I believe it's 43 inches tall with a body diameter of 12 inches. I'm not sure of the foot print. So it's slightly larger than the Reeflo 250 but smaller than the Volcano 1850. That way you would still be able to get all of the options you want. It still uses the Dart with the Baldor motor.
Some more pictures...
Insulation truck pumping in the cellulose and boric acid mix. This stuff was sprayed to the walls and encased in mesh. Its R factor is better then fiberglass batting and with boric acid, and the correct plastic moisture barrier, it wont grow mold
The Drywall Man cometh... This was the first load of drywall. The second load and the Concrete board came 10 minutes later and I forgot to take pictures
More to follow in a few minutes.
Insulation truck pumping in the cellulose and boric acid mix. This stuff was sprayed to the walls and encased in mesh. Its R factor is better then fiberglass batting and with boric acid, and the correct plastic moisture barrier, it wont grow mold
The Drywall Man cometh... This was the first load of drywall. The second load and the Concrete board came 10 minutes later and I forgot to take pictures
More to follow in a few minutes.
Unfortunately I didn't get any pictures of the actual drywall process. It was nasty down there, the air filled with so much dust, even and night after work, I was afraid to take an expensive camera down there. As it is some of teh dust got inot the control board for teh furnace downstairs and it looks like it needs to be replaced.... I have one on order.
Pool table area
Plasma and part of the bar area.
Bar and Tank. Yes its under the tarp.. No peeking!
Bathroom
Pool table area
Plasma and part of the bar area.
Bar and Tank. Yes its under the tarp.. No peeking!
Bathroom
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